Dodgy LayZSpa

[Steviecuk]

Hi all.

I have had my LayZSpa a few years now and it was a few years old when I bought it. A few months ago I felt a shock when I was standing on the (wet) decking and then touched the water. I got the MM out and it read 50v to both the decking and of course into the ground/earth.

I then took the lid off and found that one of the two heaters (ceramic strip heaters attached to an aluminium tube of which the water passes through) was shorting against the tube. I read 77v to the outside of the housing. This obviously then in turn passed into the water and caused the shock.

On inspection of the design I found that there was no earth wire what so ever going to anything, not even the metal housed components. In fact the main power plug was only a two core lead!!!! There is no in-built RSD and only a thermal cut out which obviously won’t stop my problem.

I disconnected the faulty heater and screwed a ground wire to the metal housing and run this outside the unit and into a temporary ground rod in case the same things happens again.

Looking at the new design of their hot tubs, they are now incorporating an earth loop connecting to the internal components and have now fitted a sensitive in-line RCD.

question time.
1. Was their first attempt at this design safe? Or should I say safe enough to merit a CE mark?

2. Who can I complain to in regards to the above if you think it’s not safe? I’ve complained to them but they’re batting it off.

I am assuming that they have learnt from their mistake previously hence the new safety measures, but that still leaves me and a number of others out there with a ticking time bomb of electrocution.

Your thoughts please.
Thanks. Steve

 

[James]

If you bought it second hand, you will struggle to report it to anyone who will listen.
The manufacturer will say it was fine when it left the factory, the seller will say they have not modified it.

 

[Steviecuk]

If you bought it second hand, you will struggle to report it to anyone who will listen.
The manufacturer will say it was fine when it left the factory, the seller will say they have not modified it.

But my point is from stock, surely it should have been fitted with an RCD seeing as there age metal housed parts with electric and water running through it? Surely it’s a safety issue from the start?

 

[James]

From stock, as new it might have had an rcd in the supply cable.
It is possible that it has been removed to prevent unwanted tripping (an unwise solution)

 

[Steviecuk]

From stock, as new it might have had an rcd in the supply cable.
It is possible that it has been removed to prevent unwanted tripping (an unwise solution)

No it wasn’t removed. The original plug is still fitted and is of a moulding variety so hasn’t been cut and refitted. It definately didn’t come with an RCD built in and the supply is only a two core cable with no earth to anything.

 

[Strima]

Regardless of manufacturing problems lashing an earth in won’t make it safe. My advice is skip it.

If you’re that concerned commission an engineering report then contact trading standards with their findings.

 

[Steviecuk]

If you’re that concerned commission an engineering report then contact trading standards with their findings.

Perfect thank you. How do I commission the ER?

 

[Midwest]

Looking at some Lazy Spa instructions, it says it must be connected to a socket outlet protected by a 30mA RCD, and als mentions the use of 10mA PRCD.

Have you looked at your product instructions?

 

[Steviecuk]

Looking at some Lazy Spa instructions, it says it must be connected to a socket outlet protected by a 30mA RCD, and als mentions the use of 10mA PRCD.

Have you looked at your product instructions?

Yes, the instructions say it has an earth wire that must be connected to the households earthing. And also that it has a PRCD. Of which it does now. However I think the instructions might be from the newer models whereby they now do earth everything and for a PRCD.
This is the point I’m getting at, clearly they realised that it should have these safety features hence why they have changed their design, but then I think they should have recalled the others if they’re not safe, which mine electrocuting me surely proves.

 

[James]

Do you have the original instructions?
If not, you could give the manufacturer your serial number and ask for a set.

 

[Steviecuk]

Do you have the original instructions?
If not, you could give the manufacturer your serial number and ask for a set.

I found the instructions online which differ from the new models. Attached below. Said it must be fitted to a 30 RCD, which it is, but then also says the supply must be powered by an earthed power source.... but if they don’t fit an earth wired to the unit, it’s not going to be earthed is it!?

 

[snowhead]

If the 2 core power lead is truely the original then the unit would have been designed as Class 2 double insulated and if E.U compliant would have the square in Square symbol on it.
Does it have the symbol?
It would not have been supplied with a built in RCD due to the risk of damage as it's a portable unit.

The instructions, if correct for that unit do say it must be supplied via an RCD, do you have it supplied by an RCD protected socket and was it at the time of the issue?
Did you have the instructions and follow them when you first used the Spa?

The instructions are clearly a translation into English from another language, so the unit was not built in the U.K and possibly not in the E.U.
None E.U Countries appear to have less regard for electrical safety than E.U Countries.

You won't find any qualified, experienced Electrican that would be happy connecting an earth wire to mask known electrical fault on any appliance, let alone one they are then going to fill with water and sit.

Throw it in the dustbin now.

 

[Midwest]

From what you’ve said, that the supply lead does not have an earth, and yet the manufacturers instructions suggest the appliances is Class 1 (in the instructions I’ve read) and must be earthEd, suggest to me that there has been some modifications since it’s was originally manufactured, perhaps by the original owner?

I would contact the UK supplier, and seek some clarity. It may be that there are some repairs or replacement possible. I would suggest this is carried out, by someone with knowledge of the product.

In the meantime don’t use it.

 

[Steviecuk]

If the 2 core power lead is truely the original then the unit would have been designed as Class 2 double insulated and if E.U compliant would have the square in Square symbol on it.
Does it have the symbol?
It would not have been supplied with a built in RCD due to the risk of damage as it's a portable unit.

The instructions, if correct for that unit do say it must be supplied via an RCD, do you have it supplied by an RCD protected socket and was it at the time of the issue?
Did you have the instructions and follow them when you first used the Spa?

The instructions are clearly a translation into English from another language, so the unit was not built in the U.K and possibly not in the E.U.
None E.U Countries appear to have less regard for electrical safety than E.U Countries.

You won't find any qualified, experienced Electrican that would be happy connecting an earth wire to mask known electrical fault on any appliance, let alone one they are then going to fill with water and sit.

Throw it in the dustbin now.

Hey. Thank you for such an informative reply. I will have a look for a symbol after I have slept as I’ve just got in from a night shift. I am pretty certain that it is the original lead as there are no Earth connections inside the unit. I.e., no earth wires going to any of the components such as the pump, or more importantly the metal housed heater unit. I have seen a picture of the inside of a newer unit, and there is an earth wire screwed to it, obviously grounding out the metal case should it go live. The unit was connected to an RCD which didn’t trip.

I’m thinking that the company probably started importing them from a non-EU compani’m thinking that the company probably started importing them from a non-EUCountry, and then as their business grew they started either buying them from a closer manufacturer, or requested them being built to a EU standard.
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From what you’ve said, that the supply lead does not have an earth, and yet the manufacturers instructions suggest the appliances is Class 1 (in the instructions I’ve read) and must be earthEd, suggest to me that there has been some modifications since it’s was originally manufactured, perhaps by the original owner?

I would contact the UK supplier, and seek some clarity. It may be that there are some repairs or replacement possible. I would suggest this is carried out, by someone with knowledge of the product.

In the meantime don’t use it.

Thanks for your reply. I’m pretty sure it is the standard wire because none of the other components inside have Earth wires connected to them. Or even where the cable input is connected to the Main distribution block, there is no terminal for an earth. Everything is run for me to wire set up.

The newer units have an earth wire running around to everything, which is how I believe it should’ve been from the start.

I’m not actually using it at the moment, and my main point is really to try and get another safe unit from the manufacturer. Along the lines of whirlpool recalling the unsafe tumble dryer is, if it is decided that this unit is unsafe then surely this company should do the same. I’m worried that someone else’s unit might go live with more than just 50 V and do some permanent or fatal damage
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I have just found a picture of what my pump looks like, against what the new version looks like. You can clearly see the Earth wire terminated to the central heater block. And in my version, there isn’t one. At some point they must have identified the need for it and fitted it, does this not spell out that it was needed all along and was missed off on the earlier models?

 

[Vortigern]

Is there an earth stud at the bottom/underneath of that unit?

 

[Steviecuk]

Is there an earth stud at the bottom/underneath of that unit?

No not on my one (same as the top picture) No earthings what so ever. That’s why I think that their first models were so dangerous, there is absolutely nowhere for electricity (Albeit if shorted to the heater block) to go other than directly into the water

 

[Midwest]

Hmmmm. Your thread, made me think of getting one of these, but the company - Bestway - hasn't got very good reviews for customer services, and seems some people have been unlucky with failures. So I'm not so sure you'll get any good advice from them.

Seem to recall @telectrix has one, he might be able to advise, with his experience.

 

[JBW175]

Looks like you’ve got an older model, I’ve have one of these for around 4 year’s now and The internals look the same as the bottom picture. I know this as I’ve had it stripped down to clean out the heating element and pump because it gets a build up of calcium in there. I can also confirm that there is an inline RCD on the flex of the newer models.

I don’t think you’ll get much joy from customer services at best away as they only have a 2 year warranty. However I found them useful when I contacted them and they sent me replacement transformers for the lights that failed twice within the warranty period.

If that was mine I’d skip it and buy a new pump unit for the spa, I wouldn’t be risking getting in there at all, it’s dangerous.

 

[Midwest]

Looks like you’ve got an older model, I’ve have one of these for around 4 year’s now and The internals look the same as the bottom picture. I know this as I’ve had it stripped down to clean out the heating element and pump because it gets a build up of calcium in there. I can also confirm that there is an inline RCD on the flex of the newer models.

I don’t think you’ll get much joy from customer services at best away as they only have a 2 year warranty. However I found them useful when I contacted them and they sent me replacement transformers for the lights that failed twice within the warranty period.

If that was mine I’d skip it and buy a new pump unit for the spa, I wouldn’t be risking getting in there at all, it’s dangerous.

Off topic, how reliable are they, customer service etc?

 

[JBW175]

Off topic, how reliable are they, customer service etc?

To be fair, mines done me ok over the time I’ve had it and lasted well. The heating elements do tend to get a build up of calcium over time (which is to be expected as I’ve had it 4 years), this was causing the water inlet to block and shut the pump down due to the back pressure. But since cleaning the element and drilling slightly bigger holes on the inlet grill I’ve had no other problems with it.

The only occasions I’ve dealt with customer services was through email (both times), I found they were a little slow to respond but sorted the problem on both occasions after the lighting transformer failed.

All in all, I’m happy with mine as it’s had plenty of use and kept on going.

I want to install a proper one at some point but while this keeps going I can’t justify it.