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Simon47

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DC colours are either brown and blue or grey and blue dependant upon polarity.
CEF only do Grey & Blue. I ended up buying direct from Cleveland Cable who do all the standard colours.
As an aside a lot of DNO/suppliers don’t allow the use of tri-rated cables as their equipment terminals aren’t designed for fine stranded cables even with ferrules.
Useful to know. What are the issues ?
 

Strima

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Useful to know. What are the issues ?
Ferrules are only made of very thin material and most DNO/suppliers terminations are designed for the thicker stranded cables, at a guess the screws damage the ferrules allowing fine conductors to splay out causing loose connections. Also the ferrule slightly increases the size of the conductor so some may be very tight to get in without 'modification'.
 

Simon47

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at a guess the screws damage the ferrules
That shouldn't happen - if it does then the screws would also damage thicker stranded cable as well. The screws should have a flat end, which won't be a problem unless done up by a gorilla on steroids - something which would damage the thicker strands as well, if not more so.
allowing fine conductors to splay out causing loose connections
Nope. The ferrule should still contain the strands even if you cut a round hole in it with a badly formed screw. There's a risk of cutting strands, but then the loss of a small number of fine strands would have a proportionately smaller effect on the cable than cutting strands on a 7 or 19 strand cable.
Also the ferrule slightly increases the size of the conductor so some may be very tight to get in without 'modification'.
Now that I have met. Found the hole in the CU earth bar was a "snug fit" for an uncrimped 16mm ferrule, but a crimped ferrule had to be "carefully adjusted" to fit in it.

So basically the arguments come down to :
"Makes the cable too big" which could be valid, except doesn't most of this stuff now come designed to take something like 35mm cable ?
The terminal design/manufacture is defective :mad:

A while ago I tried to search for such restrictions and couldn't find any. The only reference I could find in any DNO documentations related to (IIRC) earth connections in substations where the minimum strand size was 2mm.
 

Simon47

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Mind you, at our church we had the opposite problem - the meter fitter must have left his 'driver at home because he didn't tighten any screws :eek: I'm quite serious, it's a good job some connections weren't heavily loaded.
There were tails into one of the isolators held in by gravity. And a neutral held into both the meter and a henley just by virtue of it being stiff - and he didn't get all the strands in at one end either. The DNO engineer who'd come out to answer my enquiries regarding supply characteristics was "unimpressed" - you could move every cable in it's terminations and we spent a while doing them all up before he put the fuse back and re-sealed everything.
 

SparkyChick

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Here's a quality install... discovered this after turning off what I assumed were the lights for a couple of fitting changes only to find they were still live.

IMG_20200611_141334569.jpg

Lights on a 32A breaker. Clearly whoever did this lacked even the most basic of understanding. Big knockout opened on the top surface as well.

Rented property, young family with kids. Unsurprisingly no stickers, no circuit schedule, no labels... nothing. This is the worst one I've seen. Client also asked me to look into why the two way switching wasn't working... my guess would be the same clown worked on them and screwed it up.
 

littlespark

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Right.... we’ve got excess copper showing at the terminals, holes knocked out for no reason... tails entering 2 different holes....
Second rcd not in use. (What have they done there? Chopped the pins off the bus bar?)

At least it’s a metal board, and they’ve managed to keep all the breakers the same manufacturer.
 

FatAlan

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Love the way they’re using the middle RCD as a blanking module. Live and neutral tails going through separate un-grometted / glanded knockouts in metal box.
 

SJD

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Hard to tell, but looks like the unused RCD has L & N outputs fed from the busbar?

Just possibly the installer didn't know what to do about that (hopefully not after having blown the house service fuse!), and rather than cut the busbar, thought it safer to just remove the N connections to/from the RCD?

At least the N cable with the crimped terminal waving around near the busbar has some tape over it for now - until the tape ages and peels or falls off …
 

littlespark

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All the bits are there to fix this board up. Apart from a few blanking grommits.
The busbar appears to be able to be cut, or snapped apart to feed the right hand side split... Swap some of the breakers around to share across the 2 RCD's and connect the RCD's up with the internal wires that are there taped up. Theres 16 and 6 amp mcb's for the lights.
Im thinking now the busbar hasnt had any pins taken off, and its connected to the outgoing side of the rcd. Dont know if that can damage the rcd or not.
Busbar needs its insulating cover though.

Wiska gland for the tails, just need to drill out one of the holes to make it bigger.... I see an isolator i think.. makes job a little easier.

I see another set of tails... where are they going?
 

marconi

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I thought it was one of my better efforts.....
when you were 4, before you went to specsavers and using an ivory (ie: 'Insulated') handled knife as a screwdriver. ;-)

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Sparkychick - can you name and shame to the 'authorities'? It looks recent.
 
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freddo

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Wow! It must have taken quite some effort to get it that bad, some serious skill level there. It's like absolutely everything is wrong.
 

ferg

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Did they use an oxy acetylene torch for the rear knockout?

It must have taken a bit of effort to get so much wrong.
 
a beautiful work of art... is there neutrals connected to the earth bar there and floating earths... presumably this was causing a few trips ... now and then . Absolutely atrocious.
 

freddo

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I missed the busbar going right across, I couldn't understand why the cables to the 2nd RCD were taped up. That's incredible!!!1!!
 

Strima

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Got a job to connect up a dishwasher next Friday, they can't plug it in as the original was only connected up with wires, house is less than ten years old and they're the second owners.

Asked for a picture so I could see what they meant, needless to say I will be going around a bit earlier to sort it out:

111.jpeg
 

pirate

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"As an aid to the correct identification of individual conductors, the use of clear polythene is recommended"
I can't remember which Reg. this is, off the top of my head...
 

SparkyChick

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Sparkychick - can you name and shame to the 'authorities'? It looks recent.
Alas no, there is nothing to give any clue who did it (not surprising), but it's a rental property. Speaking with the tenants Mum, it was like that when they moved in. She was going to raise holy hell with the agency and she wants me to go back and check it when they've apparently fixed it.

If it had been their own place, no doubt I would have been given the green light to sort it.

Someone asked about the other tails... they go to another small CU which I think deals with a shower. Again, no labelling, no stickers to give a clue who did it. I suspect it's the work of the landlord. The funny thing is, two of the 6A breakers have scrawl on them suggesting upstairs and downstairs lights, based on the age I'd say even without that cracking bus bar screw up they would have had problems with a borrowed neutral on the landing or hall. But to just stick the lighting in a 32A breaker???? Why not move the 6A? Clearly just no clue what so ever.
 

Simon47

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<rant>Yeah, and it's the sort of thing that means that those of us who do care and do have a clue now have to just through more hoops of red tape.
The thing is, there's enough evidence there to deal with such clueless ****oles without needing new regs - this is a clear breach of the "mumble homes fitness for habitation mumble" regulations. But the biggest problem is that the existing rules/regs/laws just aren't enforced - in part because the councils don't have the cash for enforcement. So instead we get another layer of regs that won't actually be enforced except when something gets flagged up.
So decent landlords will pay up for an EICR every few years, rogues will just ignore it like they ignore everything else, and the councils will do naff all about it.
</rant>
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Probably the same spaghetti monster who did these fibres...
Actually that's "relatively" tidy. Short of making custom length cables for every connection (which negates the benefits of factory made & tested cables), it's very difficult to do such a high-density patching without the piles of cables hanging down the side.
As for the 10 pair, that's a different matter. Looks like a 201C box that's missing the punchdown blocks - why might be an interesting question. But the problem here is that the engineers (actually, most of them aren't engineers, just technicians) are typically given more jobs to do than they have time for, and the days when they all had extensive training which included the "art of tidy terminations" seem to be long gone. So these days it's mostly a case of get in, do what you have to do, get out - and no time to tidy up anyone else's mess while you're at it.
But that's what everyone seems to want - not that they realise it. Almost everyone is only interested in "who will do X for the least amount of money" - and that typically means "who can do X for the least expenditure of man-hours".
 
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Water cooled twin and earth 20200622_152613.jpg

Found this today supplying lights in a valet bay the rest of the install it nicely done . Not sur who thought using twin and earth in underground duct was a good idea 20200622_152613.jpg
 
Not to bad actually just wonder what the life span of Pvc in water is . Sending the mega down it tommorow to see how it fairing .it was installed 6 months ago
 

James

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pvc can survive quite well under water, UV is its strongest enemy and there wont be much of that down the pipe.

but i think i might have done it differently if it were my job.
p.s. be sure to check the ducting size, not sure if they should have crammed so many cables into that tiny duct!!!!
 

Pete999

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Not to bad actually just wonder what the life span of Pvc in water is . Sending the mega down it tommorow to see how it fairing .it was installed 6 months ago
Must remember that phrase "sending the Mega down it " for future information, as opposed to carrying out an IR test " Wonderful description!" NOT
 

ipf

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Must remember that phrase "sending the Mega down it " for future information, as opposed to carrying out an IR test " Wonderful description!" NOT
New one on me too. I must admit though, I've known faults 'clear' after 'giving it a blast with the megger'.
edit. Drat!....I'll tick ya!
 
Must remember that phrase "sending the Mega down it " for future information, as opposed to carrying out an IR test " Wonderful description!" NOT
I know it not the correct terminology and yes I know a mega is a brand not a test 🤪 sorry Pete if I have made you mad. 😬
 

freddo

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As for the 10 pair, that's a different matter.
Well I fitted a block today as part of the building refurb and connected a new outgoing cable as this is being linked to another room. Fortunately there was about 5' of cable coiled in the duct as the old wires were only a few inches long. I hope the other end of the ducted cable is better, I've not seen it yet I'm told it goes to a now removed pabx. I've only attached a small photo as I don't do these very often, in fact, this is my first...
phon.jpg
 
Ok just to update I carried out an "insulation resistance test " :) across all cables and the lowest reading was between line and earth 545 meg at 500 volt so ok for now . Not sure what damage the water will do to the cable over time but just looks ruff to me .Thereis no mechanical protection where it leaves the conduit and goes into the duct. It's in one of those places that will probably be used as a store so a potential for the possible damage to the cable in the future.
 

Pete999

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Ok just to update I carried out an "insulation resistance test " :) across all cables and the lowest reading was between line and earth 545 meg at 500 volt so ok for now . Not sure what damage the water will do to the cable over time but just looks ruff to me .Thereis no mechanical protection where it leaves the conduit and goes into the duct. It's in one of those places that will probably be used as a store so a potential for the possible damage to the cable in the future.
The grey sheath is the cab;es mech protection, but I get your drift.
 
Pvc is not waterproof just water resistant. Water is a solvent and will eventually penetrate the cable.
Thanks westward . The circuits are on rcbos so I'm sure they will start tripping when the pvc breaks down . I will report my findings .
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The grey sheath is the cab;es mech protection, but I get your drift.
Yes your right .I should of said the cable is not suitable for the environment
 
It looks like the duct was full of water as it comes out underneath a jet wash bay with a grid floor so a bit of a poor design all round
 
Glad hotels are taking electrical safety seriously. I particularly like the bit of red wire jammed in the L and N to stop it being used, Extra safe.IMG_0195[20719].jpg
 

freddo

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I particularly like the bit of red wire jammed in the L and N to stop it being used,
The red wires are attached to the plug pins/back plate that is still inserted in the socket, the wires would normally be connected to the PCB of whatever cheap charger was there and has now parted into two pieces. If the socket is switched on the wires would become live. Surely it wouldn't have been difficult to pry the remains out of the socket, it would have taken less time than printing the sign!
 
Couple of years ago we (family) moved into a local authority rented property.

Having small children around, I expressed my concern about use of latch bolt on bathroom door (i.e. could lock themselves in and no way to get them out wihtout breaking down the door)
Bathroom door latch before.jpeg

Not a problem, they sent out a 'joiner' to fix, came back from work to see this.
Bathroom door latch temp fix1.JPGBathroom door latch temp fix2.JPG

Give them credit where credit is due they had sorted out the problem with the lock - turns out they didn't have all the right parts to hand at the time, so this was 'just' a temporary fix. Thankfully it did get sorted many weeks later - even managed to get new doors out of it :)
 

Simon47

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That's a serious point. I recall that as a toddler we had an outside loo - with a bolt to lock the door. I could only just reach the bolt - and when I came to unlock the door, I found it was really stiff (think door that's dropped a little so the bolt is misaligned with the keeper).
I guess I remember that incident because I struggled to get out, going from "oh dear" to tears and thinking I was stuck quite quickly :eek: I did eventually manage to get the bolt back, and I suspect I never bolted the door again :rolleyes:
 
Brand new install. This is what they did today. Rather than change the Tee to a elbow, even had a spare elbow, they just (badly) cut the trunking around the tee.240V cable in left trunking, 24V fire alarm on the right, both go up into the ceiling. Easy access from above.
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Installed today. I would not have the cheek to leave it pi**ed like that. Only MDF, so no excuse.yeehaa2JPG.JPG
 

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ChrisElectrical88

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That’s dog poop that. Looks awful.
I’ve had to crowbar a old board off the Wall today to replace it due to tonnes and tonnes of fire foam used in the top of it. Then had to go into the eves of a loft to ---- about getting the foam out of the hole and the cables clean at about midday. Came out looking like I’d done a morning swim.
 

telectrix

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Brand new install. This is what they did today. Rather than change the Tee to a elbow, even had a spare elbow, they just (badly) cut the trunking around the tee.240V cable in left trunking, 24V fire alarm on the right, both go up into the ceiling. Easy access from above.
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Installed today. I would not have the cheek to leave it pi**ed like that. Only MDF, so no excuse.View attachment 59036
and those faceplate screws are all over the place.
 
yeehaa1.JPG
Too lazy to swap a tee for an elbow. It was their mess up in the first place, they had run their high level horizontal trunking the full length, blocking other services and even removing my cabling that was coming through the ceiling. It had all been agreed, their stuff on the left and mine on the right, even marked as such.
Trunking to the left has 240V mains, on the right is 24V fire alarm, but they have also now run 240V mains in the right hand side to feed the two fused spurs.

Will the NICEIC be bothered if I reported it & asked them to come & inspect?
Rest of their work is dog s*** also.
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DSC_0001.JPG

This is their new wiring in the loft, the grey and red cables. On the other side of the wooden wall is a hall, they have strung their cables from the rafters, using offcuts of T&E with a screw through it for cable supports.
 
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