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Mikegh

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The issues for me looking at that board

Supply to the board doesn't look adequate

No isolation on the board

Non standard method of wrong the breakers, dunno what the rules are on that
They may be identical top and bottom and work both ways but when i switch off an mcb I expect the top to be dead here

Probably more issues
 
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Simon47

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My old man had to buy hundreds of pennies worth of equipment too. He only needed 3 tools though. One was a large volume moisture retaining vessel, one was the rubber-tipped water vapour scraper and the most important tool was the multicellular water dispensing unit which could be used to effectively maintain the glass.
No aerial access equipment ?
Would you dare to use patten parts on your car instead of the OM products?
I frequently do - but it does depend on what it is. Safety critical stuff is normally "known decent makes", so (e.g.) Ferodo is OK for brake pads, but I'd think twice about ACME 🤣
 
Mike Johnson

Mike Johnson

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I frequently do - but it does depend on what it is. Safety critical stuff is normally "known decent makes", so (e.g.) Ferodo is OK for brake pads, but I'd think twice about ACME 🤣
But neither of those are factory original products from the car manufacturer, probably would be Ferodo in a different colour together with the original car makers mark up that is.
 
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Simon47

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That was the point - the question was "would you use pattern parts ?", as in use parts not coming from the car manufacturer. As we (probably) all know, a huge proportion of any car is bought in parts - and buying the OEM part without the car manufacturer mark up is usually a huge saving. And then there are other manufacturers who might not be the OEM, but are of the same standard.

And then, there are others where ... you have to be a bit more cautious, hence the ACME reference 🤨 In the Land Rover fraternity, there is a parts supplier who supply many parts for older vehicles, but have a bit of a reputation for ... "variable quality". It's tricky with them since some of the parts they sell are actually OEM parts.

Back to electrical ...
Talking about the issue of only using an approved assembly (ref a few posts above). What if a CU came with some fixing screws and the MIs said it could only be fixed in place using the supplied fixings. Would that mean that you'd have to scrap it and go buy another one if you dropped one of the screws and couldn't find it ? Or would you simply substitute an equivalent against the wording of the MIs ? And what if the fixings provided just weren't suitable ?
I know this is taking things a bit far, but if you think about it, the screws used to fix the thing (assuming suitable) will have as much effect on performance of individual breakers and the whole assembly as a correctly sized piece of copper cable (e.g. RCD-neutral bar link).
 
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brianmoooore

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Would you dare to use patten parts on your car instead of the OM products?
In another parallel life, I 'do' BMW cars. 90% of the new spare parts I fit are not from BMW, but a large proportion of them are still OEM. It's not unusual to find a part (especially those containing blocks of rubber) has burr marks, where the BMW roundel logo has been ground off.
 
Mike Johnson

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The potential of not using original manufacturer's parts in motor vehicles is far more reaching in deaths through failure of any thing compared to installing a Hagar MCB in an all Legrand board, we seem to have taken a very political/intransigent view on this without considering the real consequence of capable equipment in a compatible board one that does not bend busbars out of line and just fits in the same place without any strain on the units or bars?
 
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Mikegh

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That was the point - the question was "would you use pattern parts ?", as in use parts not coming from the car manufacturer. As we (probably) all know, a huge proportion of any car is bought in parts - and buying the OEM part without the car manufacturer mark up is usually a huge saving. And then there are other manufacturers who might not be the OEM, but are of the same standard.

And then, there are others where ... you have to be a bit more cautious, hence the ACME reference 🤨 In the Land Rover fraternity, there is a parts supplier who supply many parts for older vehicles, but have a bit of a reputation for ... "variable quality". It's tricky with them since some of the parts they sell are actually OEM parts.

Back to electrical ...
Talking about the issue of only using an approved assembly (ref a few posts above). What if a CU came with some fixing screws and the MIs said it could only be fixed in place using the supplied fixings. Would that mean that you'd have to scrap it and go buy another one if you dropped one of the screws and couldn't find it ? Or would you simply substitute an equivalent against the wording of the MIs ? And what if the fixings provided just weren't suitable ?
I know this is taking things a bit far, but if you think about it, the screws used to fix the thing (assuming suitable) will have as much effect on performance of individual breakers and the whole assembly as a correctly sized piece of copper cable (e.g. RCD-neutral bar link).

The way someone explained this to me is that if its unreasonable to insist on particular fixings be used then the manufacturer will likely lose in court
 
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Simon47

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Yes, but that's not the question.
We've had a seemingly sensible statement that even the link cables (e.g. main switch N to neutral bar) must be the manufacturer supplied items. I'm suggesting that while that may be the absolute letter of the rules regarding the entire assembly being type tested, it's a bit unreasonable as a blanket "I wouldn't touch it if something else were fitted" since a piece of wire is a piece of wire.

So, as a thought exercise, what if the MIs required the use of the supplied fixings ?
At what point does common sense need to raise it's hand and shout "excuse me" ?
 
westward10

westward10

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Yes, but that's not the question.
We've had a seemingly sensible statement that even the link cables (e.g. main switch N to neutral bar) must be the manufacturer supplied items. I'm suggesting that while that may be the absolute letter of the rules regarding the entire assembly being type tested, it's a bit unreasonable as a blanket "I wouldn't touch it if something else were fitted" since a piece of wire is a piece of wire.

So, as a thought exercise, what if the MIs required the use of the supplied fixings ?
At what point does common sense need to raise it's hand and shout "excuse me" ?
Supplied fixings, that is not going to happen so it is not a viable argument.
 
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timhoward

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We've had a seemingly sensible statement that even the link cables (e.g. main switch N to neutral bar) must be the manufacturer supplied items. I'm suggesting that while that may be the absolute letter of the rules regarding the entire assembly being type tested, it's a bit unreasonable as a blanket "I wouldn't touch it if something else were fitted" since a piece of wire is a piece of wire.
I agree that my "link cable" comment was probably over the top in practise; I was trying to illustrate the concepts to someone who was completely new to this reg. Maybe an unwise example in hindsight!
 
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Mikegh

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Yes, but that's not the question.
We've had a seemingly sensible statement that even the link cables (e.g. main switch N to neutral bar) must be the manufacturer supplied items. I'm suggesting that while that may be the absolute letter of the rules regarding the entire assembly being type tested, it's a bit unreasonable as a blanket "I wouldn't touch it if something else were fitted" since a piece of wire is a piece of wire.

So, as a thought exercise, what if the MIs required the use of the supplied fixings ?
At what point does common sense need to raise it's hand and shout "excuse me" ?

Are you looking for a clearcut answer

Disputes end up in court

Car maker not honouring warranty, customer sends them a solicitors letter

Customer takes a retailer to court

Barristers fight it out on the technicalities
 
nicebutdim

nicebutdim

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Are you looking for a clearcut answer

Disputes end up in court

Car maker not honouring warranty, customer sends them a solicitors letter

Customer takes a retailer to court

Barristers fight it out on the technicalities

With car parts EU bloc exemption rules prohibit invalidation of manufacturer's warranty, provided any parts used meet or exceed the manufacturer's specification. Most parts bought through traditional supply chains will meet this requirement, but all bets would be off when buying unbranded components or importing directly from outside Europe.

In short; there is a precedent when it comes to vehicle parts and, for the most part, you'd have some protection if things went sideways (provided you use half decent components). I'm not sure I'd want to stand up in court and attempt to set such a precedent.
 
ipf

ipf

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Not getting much amusement from these dodgy trade pictures, lately.

Old single insulated red stranded switch wire going down a conduit to switch. 2 or 3 ft of it in attic.
Used some brown sleeving to give it an outer sheath......nothing else possible.

IMG_2176.jpg IMG_2177.jpg
 
ipf

ipf

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Testing newly decorated house....not much chance of looking behind the switches without taking the walls apart! Been like this for years, probably. Looks scruffy, I know, but the deco is pretty well done....in general. Just a shame he never thought about the electrics before the decorator.... and sorted some new switches out.

IMG_2182.jpg


IMG_2179.jpg IMG_2178.jpg
 
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Simon47

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Testing newly decorated house....not much chance of looking behind the switches without taking the walls apart! Been like this for years, probably. Looks scruffy, I know, but the deco is pretty well done....in general. Just a shame he never thought about the electrics before the decorator.... and sorted some new switches out.
I'm one of those who can't stand switches/sockets even painted round - so plastered round has me yelling inside "just NOOOOOO". In our house, a previous owner has fitted laminate flooring (p.i.t.a.), new skirtings, and had the walls skimmed. When I took the radiator off to decorate (and fit a new, sensibly sized bigger one) I found that they simply skimmed a few inches behind the rad and then there's a rough step.
And in the kitchen in our rental flat, there's a light switch we can't take off because like your pictures, some ***wit tiled around it.
There are some elements of some trades that I really 'kin hate.

* One day I'll carefully rake out the grout around it, but then it'll need a spacer frame grouting in as the tiles won't be behind it to screw it down onto.
 
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CamoElectric

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When I took the radiator off to decorate (and fit a new, sensibly sized bigger one) I found that they simply skimmed a few inches behind the rad and then there's a rough step.
To be fair that is pretty standard procedure if it's a reskim - nobody is going to take rads off and disrupt an entire heating system just to plaster behind them when you can't see it without putting your head against the wall anyway.
 
telectrix

telectrix

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To be fair that is pretty standard procedure if it's a reskim - nobody is going to take rads off and disrupt an entire heating system just to plaster behind them when you can't see it without putting your head against the wall anyway.
disageee there. just tilt rad. off the wall with pipes still connected. gives 6 - 8 " clearance at the top. decorate then refix rad. we're not plumbers, and a good plasterer is worth his weight in gyproc.
 
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CamoElectric

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disageee there. just tilt rad. off the wall with pipes still connected. gives 6 - 8 " clearance at the top. decorate then refix rad. we're not plumbers, and a good plasterer is worth his weight in gyproc.
If the plumbers have fitted the radiator properly there shouldn't be 6-8" of play in a rad unless you disconnect the pipework. It's definitely standard practice to just skim in behind the rads as far as you can reach. If you're careful and good with a trowel you should be able to get most of it. Taking it off in order to perfectly skim bits that are literally never seen makes no sense at all.
 
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brianmoooore

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With a radiator that is conventionally plumbed, with a valve at either end at the bottom, it should be possible to lift it off its brackets, and rotate it 90 degrees onto wooden blocks of the correct height, so that it lies out into the room. All that's required is to loosen the connections slightly and tighten them when its lain over. Leakage should be zero or just a few drops.
 

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