Discuss domestic fire alarm and smoke detectors in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net

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BristolSpark

Hi guys I have been doing some research but looking to see if some of you can shed some further light before I start ringing my Napit inspector.

We have been asked to install a fire alarm panel in a house with a few call points, a couple of sounders and smoke and heat detectors.

Some people say we should install and sign it off, others have said we should install and get some one else to design and commision it.

We were going to install as per what the local council had said ie LD2 system plus smokes in all the bedrooms as its a multi occupancy. I am feeling nervous now on the whole thing.

Can a few of you whom install such systems shed some further light on the subject matter for me. We originally assumed we could just install fill out an installation cert and invoice.

Its sounds like its not that easy. We have napit registrartion blah blah

It would be nice to hear your views on this

Thanks
 
L2 system in a house? Must be some house. What you have described there (multi occupancy/ fire panel/ l2 system) is a commercial system, not a domestic. The certifying for these fall under 3 main certs: design, installation, commissioning.
The first two can be filled out fairly easily seeing as how it's essentially been designed by the fire brigade as an l2, all you need to do is ensure that is does actually meet all these regs. Main thing that will catch you out is the sounders. Assume they kick out 90db, normal doors cancel out 20db and fire doors (which should be on every bedroom) cancel 30. You need 65db in every room, but 75db in every bedroom. In short, sounder in every bedroom, behind no more than 1 normal door everywhere else.
Which leaves commissioning. This requires testing each device with a smoke pole, or heat pole for the heat detectors. For the full set you are looking at about £800. might be worth pulling someone else in there ;)
Besides that, figuring out how various fire alarm panels and the devices work by themselves is an art form, they really don't make them simple. Research is key for that.

Hope this helps!
 
this is a 5 bedroom house, which they are looking to rent each room out to students or who ever is interested. The local council told me it has to be an LD2 system. Which when I looked into this sounded like as long as it got call points, sounders and smoke alarms in all rooms it was good to go so to speak.

Again from what you are saying its not the case then.
 
It says Categories of system •LD2 – a system incorporating detectors in all circulation spaces that form part of the escape routes from the dwelling, and in all rooms and areas that present a high fire risk to occupants.

 
Ah sorry missread the first post, thought it was the fire brigade that had spec'd it, not the council. The idea of having a fire alarm panel is that it has it's own battery supply, so the idea of using domestic AA battery powered ones with that is just crackers. Don't quote me on this, but I'm fairly certain it's not possible to get a break glass with those either. To expand on my first post a bit more:
Designing a fire alarm is based off of a "fire risk assessment", where you are basically putting your name down that this has been designed to meet all the regs by someone who is competent to do so.
If this guy doesn't know the difference between a domestic and a commercial system, chances are he isn't qualified to make that call. Know that all this falls on your shoulders as the designer and installer, so if you're not happy with something, either over-do it or double check the standards yourself (like you have been doing). Also don't underestimate tech support for the fire alarm manufacturers, for the most part they are ex installers themselves and quite knowledgeable!
 
What you have been requested to do is a Grade A install, totally standard for a HMO dwelling of 3 floors plus...and is standard through out Uk councils. Full system install with separate mains smokes. The local HMO council officer is responsible for issuing HMO licences and the fire risk assessment. Your responsibility is to design, install and commission the system to the officers specification.
You will be requested to install the following......
1. 4 zone fire alarm panel required, utilizing a zone per floor (ground, First, Second)
2. Call points on all exit doors on ground floor, landing on first & second.
3. Smoke detection on each landing and ground floor hallway
4. Heat detection in every common bedroom. & ground floor kitchen.
5. Sounders installed on every landing and in every bedroom.
6. Mains operated/battery backup smoke detectors installed in every bedroom (solo operation not interlinked)

The local council/HMO officer will require full design, install, commissioning and handover certification, A zone chart will be required.
Emergency lights will also be required on each landing and hallway.
 
Last edited:
Cheers taz, good info. I have emailed the local council again for clarification. As some of the points you highlighted they told me different.

I added some points below. As this is our first fire alarm install, I have been unable to find such paperwork on napit site. So can you point out the relevant certs required ie electrical install cert I assume we can complete for the design, installation and general commissioning. is there anything else. Also do we have to maintain this system every 6 months or can the client take ownership of the actual maintenance, this we would prefer due to location.

What you have been requested to do is a Grade A install, totally standard for a HMO dwelling of 3 floors plus...and is standard through out Uk councils. Full system install with separate mains smokes. The local HMO council officer is responsible for issuing HMO licences and the fire risk assessment. Your responsibility is to design, install and commission the system to the officers specification.
You will be requested to install the following......
1. 4 zone fire alarm panel required, utilizing a zone per floor (ground, First, Second)
2. Call points on all exit doors on ground floor, landing on first & second.
3. Smoke detection on each landing and ground floor hallway
4. Heat detection in every common bedroom. & ground floor kitchen. The council said heat in kitchen, smokes in lounge
5. Sounders installed on every landing and in every bedroom. The council said sounders on ground and 1st landing
6. Mains operated/battery backup smoke detectors installed in every bedroom (solo operation not interlinked) I spoke with the local council on this they said interlinked within the call point circuit for that floor.

The local council/HMO officer will require full design, install, commissioning and handover certification, A zone chart will be required.
Emergency lights will also be required on each landing and hallway.[/QUOTE] the council neither client mentioned emergency lights, we only got asked about the fire alarm.
 
I think a bit more clarification is needed from HMO...be all is they issue HMO certificate and have the final say.
1. I would install sounder bases with all detection, that will clear that one. (hmo mixing part 1 & part 6 over sounder requirements)
2.If you link the mains smokes with call points the whole system will activate....now this is why HMO request heats in bedrooms with mains solo smokes, any activation in that room can be dealt with, if not the heats take over. (idea of reducing false alarms) suggest they are taking abaut heat not mains smoke
3. If there is a lounge down stairs then agree needs smoke and again sounder base.
I am presuming that this is just bedrooms and not self contained flats with a lounge and kitchen in each.
Final thing dont buy plastic expensive rafiki or other electrical wholesaller junk, use a security outlet for professional equipment will same time a money on installation.
 
tazz once again, many thanks. Regarding a grade A LD2 system, I read this requires 72hrs backup. is this true. Normally you get 2 x 12v batteries. What will be required to give that level. Or did I misread that info.

Yes its all bedrooms effectively except the lounge and kitchen plus a bathroom.

What sort of alarm would you maybe go with a 2 wire or conventional, 2 wire gives access to offer sounder built into the detector.
 
Yes HMO is 72 hours backup, once you know quantities your fitting and type, you can then calculate the standby batteries required.
My favorite for HMO is Kentec Sigma (twin wire) allowing detection and sounders on 1 fp200 cable. Apollo sav wire bases and S65 detection. Best idea is to use base sounders like Fulleon Squashni. Basically you will be taking 1 x fp200 cable to each floor, making the installation easier. Apart from normal maintenance, you will have a trouble free system for the next 10 years (life of the smoke detection)
Battery calculation is (Q x 72 ) + (A x 0.5) x 1.2 = Battery A/H......Q is total stanby current, A is total alarm current. 1.2 is battery
factor.
Hope this helps
 

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