domestic installers course... electrician in 4 weeks??

[ze bonitinho]

This is not me btw but a friend of ours has recently enrolled on a course to become a solar installer and after ringing round a few trade schools has found a course that will let him set up his own company installing pv systems and working on peoples houses in under 5 weeks. he has been saying that he will become a domestic electrician with niceic accreditation and mcs accreditation
is this possible and if so....why
this has got to be one of the most harful ways of diminishing our trade i`m a time served electrician that studied for 4 years and have worked my way through the 2391 and other courses to get a job and struggle looking for work when its very thin on the ground at the minute and people like this can waltz in and get a job after 5 weeks :censored:

 

[ezzzekiel]

but can he?
he could set himself up but would then need to source work and carry out a good job whilst competing with well established firms,

he could apply to a firm for work, most of which would laugh at his qualifications.

 

[pblec]

i'm a domestic installer after a 6 week course, my remit is domestic i dont touch 3 phase or industrial / commercial and in my area agricultural. i don't class myself as experienced as there is always someone who knows more.

if i price up a job and get it because i'm cheaper than you who's fault is that, so long as i work to the exact same standard as you and are just as profesional as you and work to within my capabilities as you would, what am i doing wrong.

ganted some domestic blokes may work outside what they should do, we all agree they shouldn't,

 

[Geoffsd]

working on peoples houses in under 5 weeks.

I think this is more a case of the course organisers giving false hopes to encourage people to give them money.

Has your friend previous experience working with electrical installations?
I don't see how a person with absolutely NO experience could be 'competent' in five weeks.

Are there five week courses for other trades and professions (I haven't looked) - e.g. be a brain surgeon next month.

Perhaps we only needed to go to school for five weeks.

 

[Engineer54]

When i asked you on a previous thread how long have you been in the electrical industry you answered.....

Re: SWA Depth?

28 years and still working in this country, applying this countries regulations and ensuring i stay current with all the relevent practises​

Now your telling us you did a 6 week course??

i'm a domestic installer after a 6 week course, my remit is domestic i dont touch 3 phase or industrial / commercial and in my area agricultural. i don't class myself as experienced as there is always someone who knows more.

Soooo, ....which is the correct one???​

 

[pblec]

you're bang on i did all of my formal training in 1985 but would not class being current in all that time, my previous employer had a further set of standards for me to work to. we all know there are alot of varied trades which all come under the electrician description.

when i chose to set myself up as self employed i believed my best option would be to retrain which i did.

i could class myself as a fully qualified time served electrician because on paper i am. But in practise i am not i am out of date or not current which is why i stick to what i know or am current with.

 

[millwall ken]

I think this is more a case of the course organisers giving false hopes to encourage people to give them money.

Has your friend previous experience working with electrical installations?
I don't see how a person with absolutely NO experience could be 'competent' in five weeks.

Are there five week courses for other trades and professions (I haven't looked) - e.g. be a brain surgeon next month.

Perhaps we only needed to go to school for five weeks.

I'm attending a 5 hr course next week that will entitle me to sit on the JIB board. The course is called 'how to be a **** and influence people.'

 

[Superspark23]

Sounds exactly like my old boss, only difference he started up before there was lots of Solar companies out there. Hense why i'm no longer with him. No matter what job im doing i believe it should be done correctly and safely, he was trying to make me break so many regulations it was un believable glad im out of his company.

 

[tawraste]

there's a lot on the forums about these courses, but not everyone can make a full time college course if they are re-training. sometimes doing these courses after a lot of work experience with a practising electrician can just be the formal end to an alternative training route.

however, there's no denying that whether you;ve done one of these courses, got fully qualified properly, or done nothing whatsoever in way of training, you can still walk straight into an electrical wholesalers and buy whatever you want and then go right ahead.

just an idea, but what if the only way you could buy supplies was to register with proof of your registered body status?

 

[Geoffsd]

what if the only way you could buy supplies was to register with proof of your registered body status?

Never going to happen.

 

[ze bonitinho]

this course hes doing includes... manual handling?? COSHH?? PAT testing and an introductory course to electrical installation 17th ed, plus the 2392.
how can any of these make you an electrician this should be standard to get your labourers card not an installer.
Just out of interest to anyone that has come across the contents of this course what does it include knowledge wise and what, more importantly does it miss out??
There is far too much info for a 4 week course that is a must to know and absorb, plus gain a working knowledge of

 

[Engineer54]

just an idea, but what if the only way you could buy supplies was to register with proof of your registered body status?

Yet another guy, who thinks that denying people their rights to purchase what ever they want, is going to solve all of the domestic electrical problems!! Perhaps he wants to be an Electrical Police officer too!!!!

 

[mreesholu]

Electricians do not last forever, so new blood is always needed. It's a tough old world out there. I say good luck to anyone who wants to better themselves. Not everyone who has been on one of these courses is necessarly a cowboy.

 

[Ryan_Moore]

If a traditional apprenticeship consists of 1 day release a week for a year to get your level 2 (52 weeks) minus 6 weeks in summer when the colleges are closed, minus 2 weeks in easter, minus 3 in christmas and then take another 3 off for half terms you are looking at 38 days in college.0 A 6 week full time course would be 30 days, with smaller classes so the tutors can spend more time with you and go through things quicker etc etc I would say it is viable to be qualified to work in 6 weeks. However there is stuff you learn on site that you cant learn working in a college so just how useful those qualifications are is another matter.

 

[Engineer54]

If a traditional apprenticeship consists of 1 day release a week for a year to get your level 2 (52 weeks) minus 6 weeks in summer when the colleges are closed, minus 2 weeks in easter, minus 3 in christmas and then take another 3 off for half terms you are looking at 38 days in college.0 A 6 week full time course would be 30 days, with smaller classes so the tutors can spend more time with you and go through things quicker etc etc I would say it is viable to be qualified to work in 6 weeks. However there is stuff you learn on site that you cant learn working in a college so just how useful those qualifications are is another matter.

Yep, and if we take your concept of viability a step further we can have ONC/HNC courses taking a little more than those 6 weeks... And maybe OND/HND a little longer still!! Hell, ....why not go the whole hog, ...and have ''fast Track'' Full Honours B Eng/B Sc Degree's??

 

[bikeman01]

I`m sick n tired of this. I went down the apprenticeship route as i think its the right way to go (learning from people who have been at it for years). Its about time that the route was made clear to those wishing to join industry as a QUALIFIED COMPETENT ELECTRICIAN. No more scam 4 week "be a sparks" courses and the backup from government on this. I know its all about choice and those who wish to waste their cash on such "courses" can do so for all i care. But i know this: when i have done my college studies and served my time i will be considered an electrician and not until. NO ONE will be able to deny me that

Trouble is there are no more apprenticeships - there is a system which exploits the young and unemployed that goes under the guise of apprenticeship but the days of a 3 year apprenticeship with college and on the job training at a rate just above min wage have long gone. Nowadays the term apprenticeship is a byword for paying below min wage. My local car dealer even has an apprentice on his parts counter so he can avoid paying min wage.

You probably benefited from a 'proper apprenticeship' yet are now reluctant to take on a trainee yourself - true?

So how can you condem people who have no other option than to self fund their training to get onto your ladder?

My mate and I were made redundant from our cushy white collar jobs a few years ago (that's got your back up already hasn't it) and we decided to enter the electrical game. He did an evening course in elec saftety, took no more than a year, did a few jobs that he got inspected and now has his part p. We both knew the job having done a bit of diy and we now re-wire demostic/commercial properties, change consumer units etc. It's not rocket science and I didn't need 4 years to learn it.

Lets face it an appreciceship is usually only 3 years because a) it's nice to have some cheap labour and someone to make the tea and b) your average 17 year old has a very short attention span and is apt to arseing about.

 

[millwall ken]

Trouble is there are no more apprenticeships - there is a system which exploits the young and unemployed that goes under the guise of apprenticeship but the days of a 3 year apprenticeship with college and on the job training at a rate just above min wage have long gone. Nowadays the term apprenticeship is a byword for paying below min wage. My local car dealer even has an apprentice on his parts counter so he can avoid paying min wage.

You probably benefited from a 'proper apprenticeship' yet are now reluctant to take on a trainee yourself - true?

So how can you condem people who have no other option than to self fund their training to get onto your ladder?

My mate and I were made redundant from our cushy white collar jobs a few years ago (that's got your back up already hasn't it) and we decided to enter the electrical game. He did an evening course in elec saftety, took no more than a year, did a few jobs that he got inspected and now has his part p. We both knew the job having done a bit of diy and we now re-wire demostic/commercial properties, change consumer units etc. It's not rocket science and I didn't need 4 years to learn it.

Lets face it an appreciceship is usually only 3 years because a) it's nice to have some cheap labour and someone to make the tea and b) your average 17 year old has a very short attention span and is apt to arseing about.

I don't remember reading that Glennspark SAID that YOU have to be under 18 to be an apprentice. He only stated that the apprentice route (whatever age you do it) is the best option. Your serve.

 

[focusphil]

Not this old chestnut again:ban:

 

[ze bonitinho]

the time scale thing is completely irrelevant, whilst doing night courses or apprenticeships you are studying and applying the information you have been taught over a long period of time. plus, it is not one day a year for 1 year the college goes on for 3 years and the night course is 2 years 2 nights a week. the course he is on is only 2 or 3 weeks electrical, the rest is filled up with pat testing manual handling coshh and then a PV course, the nic one not the C a G one, there must be a tonne of information that is missed out on these courses surely

 

[Acer]

Without wishing to denigrate anyone on this forum I don't think that a 4 year apprenticeship necessarily makes you a better sparks than someone who has entered the industry through an alternative route. In fact a close colleague of mine, with a background in electronics, is someone I regularly consult whenever I have a technical or regulatory problem. Over the years I have worked alongside time served sparks and those with little experience at all but it did'nt always follow that those with the most experience were the most competent.

My apprenticeship was in the mid 1970's and was nic/jib approved..something I later found out to mean nothing much at all..! It was a small firm based in a market town in the south east employing 9x operatives. For the first 18months all I did was fetch and carry with sweeping up as an added bonus. If it had'nt been for the one day a week I spent at college my electrical experience would have amounted to nothing much at all..in fact I can honestly say that I did'nt learn very much at all going to work..any knowledge I gained was via college and from my fellow apprentices.

Two years after my apprenticeship finished I became self employed...and thats where the learning curve really started, where the work experience really began...so do I think it is possible to turn anyone into an electrician in four weeks...yes I think it is, but only if the candidate had aptitude beforehand... and even then the scope is limited to domestic only. Of the four electricians at the firm where I served my time only two had any formal training, the other two learning on the job...but still able to later qualify as approved..albeit rubber stamped by the powers that be...