Earth bonding - checking safety for my mum

[Rendeverance]

Hi everyone,

So, I live a long way from my mother (8/9) hours... And so I only get to see her intermittently. She has had a fair bit of work done by whom I believe to only be a 'handyman', who is also her friend so it's a sensitive subject to bring up, and I want to ensure if I am right to be concerned before questioning his work.

She has had both a bathroom and kitchen installed by the bloke, and I will be fair, aesthetically, in those rooms, he has done a stellar job, to a high standard, however I have become a bit concerned about the plumbing, and potentially electrical work.

Essentially, I was under the understanding, and also indeed have fitted on my own installs, earth bonding to all radiators and copper pipework. I am not a proponent of mixing copper and pushfit, and call me old school but I would have got the torch out and used copper fittings. However my concern here is he shouldn't have done these installations anyway (though I've not been able to find a way to check if he has part P), and as such there seems to be no earth bonding on the bathroom or kitchen tap pipework, or radiators.

Then, when tracing pipework to find a stopcock I open her airing cupboard to find this:
Image of airing cupboard pipework

Now, to me it seems a bit heath Robinson, however excusing the aesthetics of the pipework, is this allowed? We have electric auxiliary water pumps to the shower and hot water (bungalow), all hooked up with a mixture of earth bonded (original) water tank and pipes, and copper sections and flexis which are not bonded?

To me this does not seem right, I went to a lot of effort (probably went overkill) on my last bathroom, and ensured everything I would touch that was fed by copper, was earth bonded. Couldn't these sections theoretically float?
I cannot feel it today (but I'm a bit dehydrated lol), however the other day I swear I could feel a potential on one of the pipes on said cupboard, which triggered my concern.

Unfortunately I don't have a multimeter with me, but if anyone could give me advice on checking the safety of this, or if you can see anything glaring from the image, I would be most grateful.

Many thanks in advance, if you need any more information I will be glad to provide, but I'm only here another 48 hours, needing to get home before lockdown, and am trying to find a meter but no luck yet. Would be useful to know what I am looking for (I would assume I want resistance to earth to be less than 25k ohm?)

Ren

 

[DPG]

Are all circuits in the house protected by RCDs? What is the main bonding like? Photo of consumer unit would be useful also.

 

[Rendeverance]

Are all circuits in the house protected by RCDs? What is the main bonding like? Photo of consumer unit would be useful also.

Hi DPG, thank you for looking at this for me.

To me the earth conductor to the CU looks insufficient too? The gauge is far smaller than the conductors from the meter? ?

There is RCD protection on all but the immersion heater, or so it's labelled... Though I've now highlighted that I need to refit the wire to the immersion element as the insulation is separated from the unit (he didn't fit that, but how he missed it is beyond me)

It appears from tracing the wires that the water pumps are spured off the shower circuit.

Picture of CU

 

[Rendeverance]

I will also tell my mother to stop charging lithium batteries atop the meter ??

 

[DPG]

Looks like the lights in the bathroom won't be RCD protected then.

Yes, the lithium batteries and oil container near the electrical intake is not ideal!

 

[Rendeverance]

Looks like the lights in the bathroom won't be RCD protected then.

Yes, the lithium batteries and oil container near the electrical intake is not ideal!

Indeed they are not, just confirmed. I'm not sure if the lights have been touched in either room tbh, I shall confirm.

Anything I can advise (other than the obvious regards to the batteries and oil ? - I cant believe she did that)

 

[Wilko]

Hi - is the pump is powered off the immersion heater circuit? As that’s on the unprotected side I think it would be an improvement to safety to get an RCBO (say) and same for the lights as well. Then there’s the immersion cable to fix, which is potentially dangerous with single insulation exposed.

 

[UNG]

Hi everyone,

So, I live a long way from my mother (8/9) hours... And so I only get to see her intermittently. She has had a fair bit of work done by whom I believe to only be a 'handyman', who is also her friend so it's a sensitive subject to bring up, and I want to ensure if I am right to be concerned before questioning his work.

She has had both a bathroom and kitchen installed by the bloke, and I will be fair, aesthetically, in those rooms, he has done a stellar job, to a high standard, however I have become a bit concerned about the plumbing, and potentially electrical work.

Essentially, I was under the understanding, and also indeed have fitted on my own installs, earth bonding to all radiators and copper pipework. I am not a proponent of mixing copper and pushfit, and call me old school but I would have got the torch out and used copper fittings. However my concern here is he shouldn't have done these installations anyway (though I've not been able to find a way to check if he has part P), and as such there seems to be no earth bonding on the bathroom or kitchen tap pipework, or radiators.

Then, when tracing pipework to find a stopcock I open her airing cupboard to find this:
Image of airing cupboard pipework

Now, to me it seems a bit heath Robinson, however excusing the aesthetics of the pipework, is this allowed? We have electric auxiliary water pumps to the shower and hot water (bungalow), all hooked up with a mixture of earth bonded (original) water tank and pipes, and copper sections and flexis which are not bonded?

To me this does not seem right, I went to a lot of effort (probably went overkill) on my last bathroom, and ensured everything I would touch that was fed by copper, was earth bonded. Couldn't these sections theoretically float?
I cannot feel it today (but I'm a bit dehydrated lol), however the other day I swear I could feel a potential on one of the pipes on said cupboard, which triggered my concern.

Unfortunately I don't have a multimeter with me, but if anyone could give me advice on checking the safety of this, or if you can see anything glaring from the image, I would be most grateful.

Many thanks in advance, if you need any more information I will be glad to provide, but I'm only here another 48 hours, needing to get home before lockdown, and am trying to find a meter but no luck yet. Would be useful to know what I am looking for (I would assume I want resistance to earth to be less than 25k ohm?)

Ren

With an 8/9 hour travel time what is your mothers location as this may have a bearing as to whether Part P is applicable

 

[Dartlec]

To me the earth conductor to the CU looks insufficient too? The gauge is far smaller than the conductors from the meter? ?

There is RCD protection on all but the immersion heater, or so it's labelled... Though I've now highlighted that I need to refit the wire to the immersion element as the insulation is separated from the unit (he didn't fit that, but how he missed it is beyond me)

It appears from tracing the wires that the water pumps are spured off the shower circuit.

Picture of CU

From the picture it looks like it might be 6mm earth to CU and to bond the nearby gas pipe?

While it's not what would be put in today, it's not necessarily a problem leaving it - The adiabatic equation would probably come out fine for 6mm and if I recall the guidance is that 6mm bonding in good condition can be left. However, given that it's close, it wouldn't hurt to upgrade the bonding to 10mm.

It would also be easy enough to upgrade the main earth, but I wouldn't say it was essential. Though if any electrical work is due to be carried out that would be the time to do it as it would not add much if anything to the time/cost.

Supplementary bonding in the bathroom is not usually required when all the affected circuits are on RCDs, but in this case it looks like the lighting won't be. It's possible that it was already in place, and should have been checked when the consumer unit was changed to the current one, but it may not have been.

If the bathroom installer hasn't changed any electrics, then it wouldn't necesarily be his responsibility to add it either, though any cabling between circuits and pipework should have been maintained. The cable from the earth clamp in the airing cupboard looks like it might be a supplementary bonding cable - does it appear to go up into the ceiling and onto the lights?

Is there an electric shower (32A breaker)? If so is the pump for bath flow, or for something else? or was an electric shower taken out and normal shower with pump put in?

It's a source of a lot of confusion but the bonding of the pipes is not 'earthing' them, but bringing them to an equal potential so that there can't be a potential difference between them that might be detected by a (possibly naked and wet) body in contact with them.

There is no additional requirement to bond kitchen tap pipework as long as the main incoming water pipe is correctly bonded (or not at all if the incoming pipe is plastic or has an insulating piece installed where it enters the building).

In the bathroom, if you want to test, then you need to test between any exposed-conductive-parts (metal parts of electrical fittings) and extraneous-conductive-parts (pipework) that are simultaneously accessible.

This may not be that much in practise, depending on the type of light fitting, wall radiator, exposed pipes etc. Just to add to the confusion, If the light fittings are 12V, then the metal fitting part in the bathroom may not need to be earthed, in which case it is not an exposed-conductive-part so doesn't need to be tested.

What you are looking for depends on the condition R<= 50V / Ia, where Ia is the current causing operation of the protective device.

In your case, with a 6A breaker, you are looking at about 30A for Ia, which means you need about 1.6 Ohms between the points. If it was on an RCD, then it would 1667 Ohms, so you are allowed much more leeway.

This only applies to pipework accessible in the bathroom though, not the cupboard (though the bonding can be done in the cupboard)

So to be honest, there is probably not a huge issue here, but upgrading the light mcb to an RCBO would improve safety generally anyway and may be worth considering. If any of the pipework in the bathroom is not testing as above, then cross bonding in the cupboard might well resolve the issue.

If you are bored, there's a very comprehensive video here by John Ward, which will tell you more than you ever wanted to know.

 

[Rendeverance]

Thank you everyone...

This is SE England so part P applies.

I noticed the insulation on that immersion heater too (mentioned above in my rant lol) and will fix that, luckily no exposed conductors but agreed it needs done now.

Thank you for confirming that the earth is ok on the 6mm, I will advise when we next get opportunity to upgrade the earth to 10mm, as I'd feel better personally.

The shower is a thermostatic type using a pump from the hot water system, so no 32a heaters. The second pump (not seen) is to drive the kitchen sink.

Good shout on the earth bonding, there appears to be one line running "somewhere" and a supplementary heading towards the lights in the bathroom as you say - but without a meter it's hard to confirm the end point.

Thank you soo much for this.

So having speedfit and short sections of copper not bonded to each other is fine then.

He did fit all of the pumps, taps in bathroom and kitchen, and the shower unit. Obviously the pump being an electrical device I didn't know the current regs etc. I can't see any bonding to the taps or shower in, but I couldn't touch more than one simultaneously

 

[Rendeverance]

Oh, and I will take on the advice with the RCBO, and also hopefully source a meter to check in the cupboard for any floating potentials.

I've learnt a fair bit thanks again

 

[Dartlec]

I should clarify that in my earlier comment the 1.6 Ohms is the maximum you'd want to find, and if the supplementary bonding conductor is in place as it appears, it will be probably much lower, ideally something like 0.05 Ohms.

Can't comment on the plumbing quality, though plastic fittings seem to be standard now and I've seen a lot worse on some of the bathroom installs I've worked on.

Is the main water stopcock in the same cupboard? Checking that the bonding is present to pipework just after that and to the gas is really all that is necessary these days outside of bathrooms, though you also have to watch out for a pipe then going back into the earth (or a concrete floor), as it then needs bonding again where it re-enters the property. It's the introduction of an earth potential that you're looking for.

If by any chance you have a certificate from when the consumer unit was installed, then it should have checked these things and might give you some peace of mind. If not, then an EICR at some point might be worth the investment to be sure there are no other hidden nasties.

Insulated fittings often mean that the pipework after it is no longer extraneous anyway.

If you really wanted to test something to see if it is an extraneous-conductive-part or not then it's tested between the part in question and back to the main earthing terminal, and it's a different formula (some details here if you want more bedtime reading) - at which point you're looking for more than 22k Ohms to confirm it's not extraneous-conductive, or less to say that it is.

I'd say if you fix the immersion now, and upgrade the lighting MCB to an RCBO and perhaps the main earth and main bonding to gas, then you've done everything reasonable to make the property safe for a good while into the future (Type A RCDs and that issue aside).