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Discuss Earthing for lights in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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bullethead

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I have been asked by a friend to swap her exisiting standard plastic ceiling rose / pendant for a new light fitting which is metal. I am not an electrician so wanted to clarify a couple of things if that is ok:

1. It is still allowed under current regs for minor works such as swapping a light fitting to be carried out by someone who is 'competent' (bit of a grey area that I know!)

2. In this instance the house is not a new build and as such there is no earth in the lighting cable. To my mind this new all metal fitting should not be fitted unless it can be somehow connected back to earth. Is this correct?
 
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ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
I have been asked by a friend to swap her exisiting standard plastic ceiling rose / pendant for a new light fitting which is metal. I am not an electrician so wanted to clarify a couple of things if that is ok:

1. It is still allowed under current regs for minor works such as swapping a light fitting to be carried out by someone who is 'competent' (bit of a grey area that I know!)

2. In this instance the house is not a new build and as such there is no earth in the lighting cable. To my mind this new all metal fitting should not be fitted unless it can be somehow connected back to earth. Is this correct?
As it is not a like for like you have to notify LABC before carrying out work plus £100+ fee.

Joke isn't it, this PART P?
 
B

bullethead

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  • #3
Thanks for that, I didn't realise that something so relatively simple would need to be notified!?
To be honest, had it not been for the earth issue I would've gone ahead and fitted it in 15 minutes and thought nothing more of it!

Just to clarify, the only person able to carry out this job without prior notification to the local authority would be a 'fully fledged' electrician who is able to self certify?
 
J

Jurassic Spark

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  • #4
Where is the existing ceiling rose?
You only need to notify if it's in a kitchen or bathroom. (special location) If it's in a lounge/dining room/bedroom etc. you can replace it but it MUST be earthed.
 
B

bullethead

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  • #5
Where is the existing ceiling rose?
You only need to notify if it's in a kitchen or bathroom. (special location) If it's in a lounge/dining room/bedroom etc. you can replace it but it MUST be earthed.
It's a hallway, so I was surprised at the though that I might have to notify. Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the earthing issue Jurassic - looks like she'll have to 'get a man in' (or woman of course, how terribly un PC of me :))
 

ian.settle1

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Where is the existing ceiling rose?
You only need to notify if it's in a kitchen or bathroom. (special location) If it's in a lounge/dining room/bedroom etc. you can replace it but it MUST be earthed.

therefore if he is replacing the cable and it is not like for like eg present cable has no earth and new one will, he will need to inform the LABC as it in theory it will be rewiring and not replacing the cable.
 
B

bullethead

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Right, think I've got it....
If the exisiting cable had an integral earth wire, I could take down the old light and fit the new one as it could be earthed. No need to notify.
However, as there is no earth in the current cable the only way I could fit the light is by running new cable with an earth, hence no longer just replacing a light fitting and as such I'd need to notify.
Easy these electrical regs aren't they!
Anyway, thanks very much for the help, I think my best course of action is to tell her the current lights look lovely - why change 'em!
 

ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
Right, think I've got it....
If the exisiting cable had an integral earth wire, I could take down the old light and fit the new one as it could be earthed. No need to notify.
However, as there is no earth in the current cable the only way I could fit the light is by running new cable with an earth, hence no longer just replacing a light fitting and as such I'd need to notify.
Easy these electrical regs aren't they!
Anyway, thanks very much for the help, I think my best course of action is to tell her the current lights look lovely - why change 'em!
It's nothing to do with the electrical regs but the BUILDING regs.
 
B

bullethead

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  • #9
It's nothing to do with the electrical regs but the BUILDING regs.
Yep, point taken - Part P.
Cheers.
 
J

Jurassic Spark

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  • #10
You could of course, run a separate earth from the light-fitting instead of wiring a full circuit.

@Mike Davies...

Why is that forum better?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
You could of course, run a separate earth from the light-fitting instead of wiring a full circuit.

@Mike Davies...

Why is that forum better?
2. In this instance the house is not a new build and as such there is no earth in the lighting cable. To my mind this new all metal fitting should not be fitted unless it can be somehow connected back to earth. Is this correct?

How can he the is no earth in the cable
 
J

Jurassic Spark

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  • #12
Read my post again. He could run a SEPARATE earth back to a suitable earthing point. I.E. a 2.5 or 4mm insulated earth wire.
 
A

adamh

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  • #13
it isnt notifiable because its in the hall and work that makes an installation safer isnt notifiable either
 
B

bullethead

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  • #14
it isnt notifiable because its in the hall and work that makes an installation safer isnt notifiable either
Thanks for the update, this is all great information - well worth me registering for this forum.
 
D

DYCHE4230

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  • #15
Some grey areas here I think?

Just having a read for Knowsley council

Installing an additional light not notifiable except bathroom etc
installing/upgrading bonding not notifiable except bathroom etc
replacing damaged cable in circuit not notifiable....(for certain conditions) except bathroom etc

Now I know none of these are exactly the same as the original question but surely if all of this is not notifiable then maybe the light swap is not notifiable or is it :rolleyes:.....I suppose only the local BCO could answer that.....
 

ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
Some grey areas here I think?

Just having a read for Knowsley council

Installing an additional light not notifiable except bathroom etc
installing/upgrading bonding not notifiable except bathroom etc
replacing damaged cable in circuit not notifiable....(for certain conditions) except bathroom etc

Now I know none of these are exactly the same as the original question but surely if all of this is not notifiable then maybe the light swap is not notifiable or is it :rolleyes:.....I suppose only the local BCO could answer that.....
Cable is not damaged, it has no earth in it so it is a new cable so will it not be notifiable?
 
L

London Luke

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  • #18
its not "Mel" again is it ? watch out when your up a ladder !

if you dont get the joke , dont worry !
 
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