Discuss ECS, NICEIC and JIB farce in the Business Related area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Tell me what you think of this guys...

i undertook a health and safety course in order to obtain an ECS card which as you may know is needed by many building sites these days. I got 98%. I sent off for my card the other day and paid the £36 or so for it.

Now i am the director of an electrical contracting firm, i have City and Guilds 2360 parts 1 and 2 in which i got distinctions, City and guilds 2391, 16th edition regs and 17th edtion regs, and i am also the NICEIC priciple duty holder and qualifying supervisor and have been so ever since we were accepted as a fully approved comapny by the NICEIC some ten years ago.

i put all this information on the ECS card application form.

today a got the card and guess what.. it has 'trainee' on it!!

obviously i contact the JIB and told them that there must be some mistake. the lady on the end of the phone asked about my qualifications which i listed. she said do you have an NVQ level 3 to which i replied no as when i did my City and guilds courses NVQ did not exist and had not even been though of. she said, well that why then. if you havent got that then in our vieww you are not more than a trainee. i said, but ive been an NICEIC QS for over ten years! they do not seem to have a problem with it and they inspect me personally every year. she said it makes no difference as we dont recognise the criterior for an NICEIC QS.

when i askes about getting the qualification she gave me some nuumbers, which i called. the cost of this course which turns out is a practicle course is nigh on £900.

i then rang the NICEIC and spoke to one of their operatives on the reception call centre. i explained the situation and said i would liek to speak to someone who could help. in his wisdom he put me through to the NICEIC ID card printing dept who were somewhat bemused as to why they had been put forward as a possible help. i then called the receptionist back and asked to speak to a manager. he put me on hold and then told me that he had spoken to a manager and that the advice was that if i needed the card with something other than Trainee on it then i should do the NVQ course.

i pointed out that the EAS committee management had recently come to an agreement whereby a new QS for a body such as the NICEIC applying for the post after 1 Jan 2012 would need the NVQ but that any QS's already in the role before this date woul dnot need it. on this basis the NICEIC either considered that i was indeed qualified to this level seeing as i have been inspected many time before on my workmanship or that if this was not the case then the NICEIC were happy to have QS's who were appointed before 1 jan 2012 who in the eyes of the JIB were no more than Trainees!! what is more is that we were recommended to do the electrical work because we are NICEIC approved and i now cannot get on to the site as the most senior person running the firm is only a Trainee. The NICEIC's reaction was 'you must take this up with the JIB as they are nothing to do with us'.

now for the question...

is it me or are all these electrical bodies not talking to each other? Why cant there be a standard that sparks can be judged by based on when they did their exams and what exams were available to them at the time? are they just interested in the next few hundred quid from the sparks that they have on their books? how can this be right that someone in my position and others the same cannot get an proper ECS card because the JIB (who have a monopoly on the ECS system)dont recognise City and Guilds qualifiactions anymore and i havent done an NVQ course that was brought in 5 years or more after a became qualified?

i cannot now do the work that i am being asked to do!! its so bloody anoying. this falls in with the shambles that is Part P.
 
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LOL yep and more ways to scam people out of money
I now have 2382-10 2377, 2393, 2391, 2330 lv3 and hopefuly will be finished with the NVQ shortly
none of the newer quals are anything like the old apprenticeships jsut wish i had completed mine then wouldnt have had to pay a fortune to do the above buy all the books, registering and all the costs associated with that
 
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oldtimer

I have said it before this situation is out of control and the Schemies are looking at short term profit and before anybody says do they know whats going on with regards to comments like this on this forum of course they do I have no doubt they lurk and I would equate them to a drug dealer where they get you hooked on their badge and then screw you for all you have it will take several deaths for anything to get done and as I have said I am not against people who want to learn but this is a serious business and there is no way tou can do it in 6 weeks or 6 months I served 4 years plus 2 years to gain my approved now I am not asking for that to return but a minimum of 2 years I would say for domestics ie single phase working.

We know the system is not working when you get guys coming on the forum to say they are registered but cannot figure out the basics so this is not a pop at these guys call me cynical but this carry on in my view of registration is getting a bit like the Federation of Master Builders ie its not worth the paper its written on
 
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oldtimer

That 2382 multi guess to upgrade 16th to 17th, the course runner announced i had got "100%".


Yes it was that easy

I am amazed at this tick box mentality or in other words you give us £500 and you will pass we get 100% pass rate and then we can sell live the dream and earn £50k a year by training up as an electrician in 6weeks
 
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markythesparky
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Marky the problem is that the JIB are getting swamped with guys who have the qualifications but just no experience and some of the posts on the forum endorse that when they say well I have bagged my 17th,2391.2377, how do I go about getting my JIB card or in other words how can I frig the system and i am sure you will agree that electricity is dangerous plus the Electrical Trainee debate does not help I have been in the trade 37 years and yes I am still learning so I think JIB are correct in asking for supportive evidence plus it does not help that the individual does not keep a written log book stating what he or she has done and when and who for .


Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/business-related/59208-ecs-niceic-jib-farce-3.html#ixzz24qvWt7R1



I couldnt agree more. But now you dont earn your site experience on site as you did before, now you can do it in the college!! at least before you were trained up properly over two years of site work. I mean what on earth is the point of the NVQ system where by the trainee has to write down all the materials used, where the job was, how long it took, what tools were involved, photo's, who was there, what you had in the cafe, what pants you were wearing..........

theres no proof that the trainee even did the work!

The fact that a QS cant get an approved card is utterly preposterous> this is where the JIB should be talking to the Schemies to agree middle ground. in makes a farce of the criterior for becoming a QS.
 
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G

Guest55

The fact that a QS cant get an approved card is utterly preposterous> this is where the JIB should be talking to the Schemies to agree middle ground. in makes a farce of the criterior for becoming a QS.

Not sure your logic stacks up there.
The NIC and JIB are completely seperate organisations and have no obligation to accept each others standards.
Just because your deemed worthy of QS status with a scheme doesnt mean you will meet the criteria of approved spark with the JIB.
Likewise an approved spark may not be automatically granted QS for whatever reasons that the scheme may want to uphold.
 
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markythesparky
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Sorry if i didnt explain myself.

When he first applies, a potential QS needs to have certain qualifications before the application is taken any further. Once this criterior is acheived then a visit is arranged and the inspecting engineer assesses not only a number of jobs but more importantly the technical abilities of the applicant. This involves assessing his/ her work and conseqently his/ her competance at the work, and his/ her competence in testing and understanding of the regs.

This is not a one off as it happens every year that the QS is registered with the relevant body.

Therefore by definition, the QS is constantly assessed on his technical ability and therefore is in no need of the one off AM1 or AM2 or NVQ.

Sorry if i didnt make that clearer.
 
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