• If you have electrical work available, then you are in the correct forum.

    Post details of the position you have on offer in this forum. Domestic / homeowners are also welcome to post electrical work they have available on their property. Or you're welcome to seach for a Local Electrician in our directory.

Discuss EIC issue................................ in the Electrical Work - Electricians Jobs area at ElectriciansForums.net

This electrician job is going for grabs, please don't post contact details in this area of the forum. Use the forum messaging system instead.
Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:   American Electrical Advice Forum

Well to explain the situation - it is definitely not to base a business model on - if i were to set up as a domestic electrician then of course i would become registered and qualified etc etc... dont worry I do know and have seen the dangers of bad electrics. This 3rd party notification scheme seems to be perhaps what I am looking for - could anybody explain in any more detail as to what this is?
And btw I havent got the time to waste at college - although I would like to spend time gaining qualifications nothing really justifies the time or money spent to be honest.
Need to ask @Vortigern, think he's registered as one?
 
Read post 14 and phone Stroma or Napit. Not sure how somebody managed to disagree with it, it is what the system is.

I do recall though, when Vortigern previously responded on not a dissimilar thread, his charges for such a service.
 
Thanks for the prompt @Midwest. I can say that it appears you have not gone ahead and done the work which allows third party notification. I am registered with Stroma for third party notification. Thay are quite strict on how it works and it does mean you have to be in at the design stage and oversee the project and test while installing and produce the EIC. They have a special Third party certificate for this which gets scrutinised by some boffins I suppose at Stroma and then possibly approved. Unfortunately your requirements exclude me as while I am reassuringly expensive, I resigned my membership from NICEIC as I don't get on with them. And NICEIC do not allow third party notification so you really are up the creek there without a paddle as they say. So you will have to contact building control and they will send their electrician who will no doubt be a member of NICEIC (ironically a third party notification in all but name!) and then a large bill for you. But on the good side it would be cheaper than me.
 
Hello. Am a competent electrician - been taught by qualified electricians, but have no qualifications myself.

Going back to the beginning again; whilst there is a significant gain to be mentored by experienced persons in a particular trade, those electricians, I suspect, have no knowledge on how a person should be trained, or to the technical aspects of that trade should be consumed & absorbed.

In short you can't police yourself in training, and who tests you to see if you've qualified in that area. My Dad help teach me to drive, but an examiner judicator that.

If your charging for your services, do you not think you should have some 'qualifications'?
 
If your charging for your services, do you not think you should have some 'qualifications'?[/QUOTE]
Yes I agree - I may not necessarily charge any more than materials - but as a busy person nothing in my life justifies spending such time and money at college instead of earning. I totally agree that this is they way to go if you want to be a sparky as a job though.
 
Got to say barnaby your honesty is refreshing...but I think even if you find a spark that can sign off 3 rd party when you explain your lack of qualifications they will probably make they excuses..
 
Im now going to throw my hat in to the ring , this third party testing how can storma and nitpick say to the sparks you can test it ,what about the insurances for it , would any body asking for there own insurance to cover it or does the third party insurances cover it considering they are testing it .
 
I think that you will find that Sparkys can and will certify other peoples works, and it is considered to be compliant.
I have taken the choice to e able to do these, but they are quite more involved, and not necessarily cheap.
The paper work is a lot longer.

I will give you an example of why this needs to be available.

You employ an electrician to rewire your house, and he basically completes it, without any certs.....But he goes bankrupt and cannot complete the job !

So what does the customer do?
If you ask the LABC (in my experience) they will accept an EICR from another qualified Sparky.........or from me an EIC third party....( similar tests etc)

You dont have many options to be fair ! LABC dont have qualified Sparkys on their books normally, but sub it out to the likes of us !
 
I wired my Scottish cottage and new self-built extension without realising the changes in rules since I was up-to-date qualified back in the 1990s. I did eventually manage to find a senior electrician / electrical contractor (plus apprentice) who did sign it off, but he had to open EVERY socket, switch and light-rose and check the wiring, as well as completing all the required tests. He commented how good it all was, but said that he had had to check everything (including my design) as he was effectively certifying the whole installation. I had used FP200 Gold screened wire which meant he was not too worried about any cable damage that might had occurred but was out of sight as it has a complete conductive sheath inside the outer insulation. I can understand why the LPA may "charge up to £700". It is a lot of work to check another person's electrical rewire properly as required.

Now I tell everyone to just get an up-to-date- qualified electrician in who can do the whole job and sign it off. It will be cheaper in the end.
 
Whilst I sympathise with you, accreditation is not easy to get and costs a spark a lot of time, money and effort why would he risk his to enable a non qualified person to carry out work they are not qualified to do.
Just about sums up our constant battle with the "you are too expensive" cheap builder brigade! Thank you
 
Hello. Am a competent electrician - been taught by qualified electricians, but have no qualifications myself. I will be doing a complete rewire for a friend in Dunstable/Luton area and was wondering if it was more worthwhile to get a NICEIC/equivalent rated electrician in to produce an EIC or to get in LABC. I have an mft and can do all the tests etc but obviously would prefer a NIC guy to sign it off. Would someone do this for me?? and what sort of price.
How can someone be competent with no qualifications? ??
 
How can someone be competent with no qualifications? ??
a guy may have had years of experience working with electricians but no paper quals. he may still be competent. on the other hand, i know several who have all the necessary paper quals., but i'd not trust them to wire a plug.
 
I think that you will find that Sparkys can and will certify other peoples works, and it is considered to be compliant.
I have taken the choice to e able to do these, but they are quite more involved, and not necessarily cheap.
The paper work is a lot longer.

I will give you an example of why this needs to be available.

You employ an electrician to rewire your house, and he basically completes it, without any certs.....But he goes bankrupt and cannot complete the job !

So what does the customer do?
If you ask the LABC (in my experience) they will accept an EICR from another qualified Sparky.........or from me an EIC third party....( similar tests etc)

You dont have many options to be fair ! LABC dont have qualified Sparkys on their books normally, but sub it out to the likes of us !
True……..but, you say, what does the customer do? Have you ever done this in a situation when someone 'unqualified' has, knowingly, done the job on his own property?
eg. Show us evidence of previous contractor.
 
a guy may have had years of experience working with electricians but no paper quals. he may still be competent. on the other hand, i know several who have all the necessary paper quals., but i'd not trust them to wire a plug.

I agree completely! The current "qualification" system is not fit for purpose. It should be essential to have a modern apprenticeship as well as college training as part of the overall approvals package. In my opinion, you need at least a couple of years "on the job" experience overseen by a qualified and well experienced electrician before you should be allowed "out on your own". I know 'technical college' lecturers who have told me "if they fail first time, we go through the questions so they pass on their second attempt". That is because of college "success ratings" being seen as the most important factor. You have better assessment at the "professional engineer" level (e.g. Chartered Engineer, C.Eng that can follow after several years "on the job" after obtaining an engineering degree) and at some of the modern engineering technician level qualifications where you need ongoing supervision and assessment reporting before you can fully qualify.
 
I agree completely! The current "qualification" system is not fit for purpose. It should be essential to have a modern apprenticeship as well as college training as part of the overall approvals package. In my opinion, you need at least a couple of years "on the job" experience overseen by a qualified and well experienced electrician before you should be allowed "out on your own". I know 'technical college' lecturers who have told me "if they fail first time, we go through the questions so they pass on their second attempt". That is because of college "success ratings" being seen as the most important factor. You have better assessment at the "professional engineer" level (e.g. Chartered Engineer, C.Eng that can follow after several years "on the job" after obtaining an engineering degree) and at some of the modern engineering technician level qualifications where you need ongoing supervision and assessment reporting before you can fully qualify.
That's life, these days. We've all got to put up with such crap. Said it many times.....trade is falling apart....could say it's imploding, bringing itself down.
 
Before anyone get riled at my comments, remember I'm incredibly grateful to this form and worked hard to be worthy of the help you guys freely offer.

Valid points in all of the previous posts BUT in framing what the situation should be we are in danger of never having any workable solution. Imagine the guy or gal who spends a couple of years on site learning from all the trades and getting a sold back ground in tool handling then magics up £6 - 12 grand in college fees plus lost wages. a year or two later, s/he then hits the market to be used as a van-loader / tea maker / goffer before being seen to have served his time and take his rightful place in the right hand van-seat.

..And, don't look to employers and shout "apprenticeship"! They simply will not stump up the front money from training regardless of age, sex or experience. They will either use the enthusiastic newby as cheap labour or pull in cheap, fully trained skills from overseas - regardless of the "B" word. Don't believe me - look at nursing in the NHS.

At risk of being stoned with a hail of failed 18v batteries. Less of the "better in the past" thoughts and more acknowledgement of the real world plus sacking the various organisations that do nothing and dip the hard worked pockets of all tradesman, would do wonders for the industry and job I worked hard to join and am still incredibly proud to be part of.

I can see a "Life of Brian" stoning video would fit in nicely right here :)
 
Before anyone get riled at my comments, remember I'm incredibly grateful to this form and worked hard to be worthy of the help you guys freely offer.

Valid points in all of the previous posts BUT in framing what the situation should be we are in danger of never having any workable solution. Imagine the guy or gal who spends a couple of years on site learning from all the trades and getting a sold back ground in tool handling then magics up £6 - 12 grand in college fees plus lost wages. a year or two later, s/he then hits the market to be used as a van-loader / tea maker / goffer before being seen to have served his time and take his rightful place in the right hand van-seat.

..And, don't look to employers and shout "apprenticeship"! They simply will not stump up the front money from training regardless of age, sex or experience. They will either use the enthusiastic newby as cheap labour or pull in cheap, fully trained skills from overseas - regardless of the "B" word. Don't believe me - look at nursing in the NHS.

At risk of being stoned with a hail of failed 18v batteries. Less of the "better in the past" thoughts and more acknowledgement of the real world plus sacking the various organisations that do nothing and dip the hard worked pockets of all tradesman, would do wonders for the industry and job I worked hard to join and am still incredibly proud to be part of.

I can see a "Life of Brian" stoning video would fit in nicely right here :)
What you say is sometimes true. However, we should not dismiss modern apprenticeships. The EITB support a range of schemes.
Home Page - ECITB - https://www.ecitb.org.uk/
The apprentice should not have to pay anything or very little, and probably buy their own tools. In regard to training, we seem to have lost pride in a good job done well and the electrical installation and repair market is very broken up by competing professional groups and poor-quality short-course training companies. The Wiring Regs are getting over-regulated and the training under-organised under-regulated and under-funded.

Yes, I am a grumpy old git at times, too!
 

Reply to EIC issue................................ in the Electrical Work - Electricians Jobs area at ElectriciansForums.net

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock