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I need to get a PIR/EICR done. I am scared that I might be forced to pay for work to meet the 17th edition regs but is not compulsory for older installations else get rated "unsatisfactory". I called up one electrician and he said if there were no rcds I would need a new CU to pass, but from reading forums it seems that it is only C3.

The only major thing I have spotted is that the CU has all MCB's but no RCD. There are circuits for rings, lights, cooker and shower.

The shower MCB could be replaced with an RCBO.

My question is, can the house still pass (albeit with a few C3s) without replacing the CU or fitting all RCBOs?

Or is it the case that any installation not up to 17th edition could be classed as 'unsatisfactory' even if it was in accordance with the regs when it was installed?

Also, some cables may not be installed exactly to the regs e.g. a twist in a cable or not clipped every 30cm, etc. If I have an inspection done, could I be forced into getting the house rewired over minor defects such as this?

Does every accessory need to be checked inside or can just a sample be looked at?

Finally, is the result of the inspection passed on to any authority e.g. building regs or put on a database?

Thanks guys.
 
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Right stop worrying about this and post up your location and i'm sure one of the guys off here will contact and arrange to do a honest EICR for you.
 
E

Engineer54

I take it that this is a rental property that your intending to rent out?? If so don't you think for your own piece of mind, and that of the saftey to your tenants, it would be a good idea to upgrade the CU to one that does have RCD protection??
 

telectrix

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
agree with both above posts. whilst it may no be necessary to fit RCD protection, it's not a bad thing. more importantly is to see the state of the installation, earthing/bonding etc. by having a EICR done. then take it from there.
 
O

oldtimer

First of all sounds like a rental property plus you have a mcb board and far as I am aware you are not obliged to put a RCD version in unless you have done or will do changes also it is not about getting a satisfactory and anyone testing the installation must give reasons why they have failed it ie no main earthing broken dangerous socket etc
 

cbw

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As mentioned, no need for fuseboard change as complied at time of installation.

If your local to me I will hapily do it for you.

£25.00 per circuit average 3 bed house takes till mid afternoon to complete.
 

Des 56

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Arms
Esteemed
Please state the reason for the report
What are your priorities ?

Is it the safety of the persons using the installation ? or perhaps a satisfactory report of an unsatisfactory installation
 
O

oldtimer

OP's location would help.
I think this should be mandatory
 
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O

Octopus

Please don't take this the wrong way but a number of your previous posts have been asking about doing work in a house, including a bathroom. Is this the house you are asking about for the EICR?
 
O

oldtimer

Please don't take this the wrong way but a number of your previous posts have been asking about doing work in a house, including a bathroom. Is this the house you are asking about for the EICR?
And if it is then I take it you need the EICR to cover any DIY works ?
 
It depends on the age of the installation and which edition of the regs it was installed to. I think it will require RCD protection to the downstairs socket outlets if it was wired to the 16th edition as it was a requirement to provide it for all sockets likely to be used for outdoor portable appliances.
 
O

Octopus

It depends on the age of the installation and which edition of the regs it was installed to. I think it will require RCD protection to the downstairs socket outlets if it was wired to the 16th edition as it was a requirement to provide it for all sockets likely to be used for outdoor portable appliances.
Modifications to circuits in certain locations will also mean installations of RCD's are very likely to be mandatory too.
 
Why would the ground floor sockets require rcd protection if the install was per 2008
I havn't got a BYB to hand but I was under the impression there was a reg in the 16th edition that stated 'all socket outlets likely to be used for outdoor portable equipment should be protected by 30mA RCD' or words to that effect. The interpretation that was the 'norm' by most sparkies I know was that any socket on the ground floor may be used for the lawnmower extension lead etc. Hence the split load board with sockets on RCD. I have seen the same reg 'complied' with by fitting 1x RCD socket in the garage but that always seemed a bit hit and miss to me. I could never belive that outdoor equipment required RCD protection but not showers...
I may be wrong though, I'd have to check old regs books tomorrow.
 
G

Guest55

I was going to take the trouble of answering all the OP's questions clearly.
Then I realised he hadnt come back to check the replies after 5 hours so i wont lol.
 
1

1shortcircuit

The beauty of replacing the board now is that if/when you need any alterations/additions done to circuits you are already complying by having RCD's fitted. By not having RCD protection if alterations/additions need to be carried out then you will need to protect the said circuit with 30mA protection. This can be easily done individually but how many individual RCD's would you like dotted around the original consumer unit?

PS, Is lack of RCD protection not a C2? :thumbsup
 
I thought rcd protection pre 2008 was only required for sockets intended for out door use
 
1

1shortcircuit

Here's a comparison for you;)

I bet the OP has an iphone rather than one of those old bricks with a handset and cord lol

Being eletcrically safe and up to date is obviously Sooooo unfashionable lol

Put your hand in your wallet and update you tight fisted geeeeet lmao

:D

Posted in jest obviously :thumbsup
 
O

Octopus

Round my way a lot of the letting agents won't take on a property unless it has an up to date board fitted. Minimum seems to be RCD on sockets.
 

i=p/u

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Arms
and bathroom
 

plugsandsparks

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Arms
Esteemed
I will be renting out next year and have already decided, no matter what property i rent out, it will have at least a whole house RCD, 240V smoke alarms and a CO alarm.

In my view anything less, then the landlord is not fit to rent out, as this stuff is so cheap compared to a weeks rent.

If i was doing the EICR it would be a C2 for any issue with earthing or RCD protection. Hence un-satisfactory, so best not to call me
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Thanks for all your replies even if one or two assumptions have been made. I sometimes post on this forum before I hire anyone if I am unsure about anything as it is far better to know a little of what i'm talking about beforehand as I have ended up with sub standard and superfluous work done in the past when I didn't know the score.

Imagine if you took your car for an MOT and the garage refused to pass it unless you had ABS and airbags fitted. Yes your car would be much safer but the garage has no right to bully you into paying for such improvements if they are not mandatory. If your car meets the MOT standard test you should pass and you can always take the garages advice if you want better safety features.

In fact I suggested the use of RCBOs in my original post as an economical way to improve safety even if it were not mandatory.

So here it seems that some of you would rate the lack of RCD protection as C3 and others C2 so is there a definitive official answer or is it simply down to the competent person to justify? I do not know the exact age of the installation but will check for labels. It is probably 12 to 15 years old.

Thanks again.
 

spark 68

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Arms
Esteemed
The least demanding code it can be given is a C3, if it is not likely that any sockets will be powering outdoor equipment.
If it is likely to be used for outdoor equipment, then a C2 is to be issued.

Have a look at this :

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/use...y/best_practice/BestPracticeGuide4-Locked.pdf

and this:

Guidance for Landlords : Electrical Safety Council

As others have said though, there is good reason to fit RCD's, not least of which for safety reasons, but could be for insurance purposes, or LA licencing reasons.

Apologies if you have already looked at these.
 
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O

oldtimer

Round my way a lot of the letting agents won't take on a property unless it has an up to date board fitted. Minimum seems to be RCD on sockets.
Thats a brave thing to do in these current economical times the one I do work for have been doing it for years but tackle it on a if required and peace meal basis

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Strima

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Arms
Esteemed
Thats a brave thing to do in these current economical times the one I do work for have been doing it for years but tackle it on a if required and peace meal basis

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I've seen some letting agents state a minimum number of sockets per room, can run into thousands on some properties just to earn a couple of hundred quid each month.
 
M

mheyes

The whole point of an EICR is to determine if an electrical installation is safe for continued operation by the end user. It must be tested by a by a skilled and competent person. Bight the bullet and have it tested by a local spark.
You don’t have to fix everything over night.
 
D

drew35

More info needed really, like is there any supplementary bonding in the kitchen and bathroom as this will affect the need for an RCD. Just get the report done by somebody registered and not a cowboy, then you can discuss all of their findings. You can also check them on the Safety Councils guide to EICR codes.
 

plugsandsparks

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Arms
Esteemed
Suggest the Op author goes on www.esc.org.uk - have a look around.
An RCD even just a simple stand alone one can trip before an electrical fire gets a grip, i.e. at the over heating stage prior to full blown flames. An MCB will happily feed a fire until everything melts before tripping.
They are a no brainer and cost less than three gallons of fuel.

Car analogy does not work as the driver has the biggest influence over safety anyway, there is no driver in house electrics. When you are tucked up in bed, nasty gremlins come out and appliances, sometimes mass produced for pennies, let go.

Last one i read about was plug in fragrance devices, how harmless can they look, but sadly the worst happened and it burnt a house down.

Anyway as for C2 and C3, if i do a EICR on a dwelling - if there is no RCD anywhere, i use my knowledge and experience to justify a C2 on the basis of the massive benefit over cost they provide. In my view the lack of backward regulation for this is a cop out. In 2012 there is absolutely no need for people to live in houses with no RCD protection
 

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