EICR code thoughts please?

[craig1000]

Hi all,

Just done a EICR and have found on one of the 3 phase DB's that most of the neutrals and cpcs on one side of the DB are all mixed up and not in correct terminals. To rectify needs a few hours to strip it all back and re terminate due to how messy it has become over the years with add on's etc so I have not done it as part of the reporting process.
I believe this is a code but am a little unsure between C2 or C3.

Thoughts please would be greatly appreciated?

 

[telectrix]

if you were to disconnect the wrong neutral while working in there, you could easily get a belt off it through the load which is still energised deffo a C2 IMO.

 

[MDJ]

A 3 probably, a rough Job, but it would be difficult to code it 2 even though it probably could be a 2, how do you argue this with the customer and look right? have to have a good think over this, a toughy for a 2 IMO.

 

[craig1000]

Yeah i'm tied between the 2 and 3 at the moment. Swinging more to the 2 as well put by telectrix, defo POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS although can see Mikes point about justifying it.
On the basis of the wording of the codes i.e 'C2 potentially dangerous' gona have to go with the C2 I think!? ;-/

 

[telectrix]

i stick with a C2. potential danger.

 

[MDJ]

I expect your right tel with the code 2, just wondering how to convince the customer it is actually dangerous that was my only point.

 

[capitolltd]

A C3 at most. Most competent electricians would check before removing the neutrals. Recommend within your summary, that a suitable label be fitted highlighting the conductors are not suitably arranged.

 

[telectrix]

and if the cables are singles, how in hell can a spark know which is which. if he disses the wrong one, he's got a live cable in his hand and it could potentially cause a danger by suddenly switching off a circuit in use.

 

[craig1000]

I was in doubt but defo a C2 for me now on reflection. The cables in question are singles and as well described by Telectrix it is potentially dangerous, which is the desciption for a C2. A single phase CU on the same job was the same but not so messy and the cables were easily identifiable as T&E so as I tested through the CU it was easy to rectify as part of the process.
If this 3 phase wasn't so messy I would do the same but due to the mess off it there's a few hours works disconnecting, sorting out & reconnecting which is not in my quote for the EICR.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

and if the cables are singles, how in hell can a spark know which is which. if he disses the wrong one, he's got a live cable in his hand and it could potentially cause a danger by suddenly switching off a circuit in use.

Technically he shouldnt be working on a live CU should he?.After all even if neutrals are in correct order it's very hard in a cramped space to be sure you've got the right one. Board should be isolated before disconnecting cables.....code 3 for me.

 

[telectrix]

and what if the board is in use running machines on a production line and you are required only to decommission 1 circuit. you won't be flavour of the month.

 

[sjhall]

C3 ... You should be double checking before working on the circuit ... All in my opinion of course

 

[capitolltd]

How does he tell? Well I'm sure that a single clamp meter would solve that problem. Besides if the op noticed that the arrangement was incorrect, then other competent persons should also.
Just because its singles, would you remove a neutral just because it looked right? Even if it was marked?. No chance

 

[Des 56]

C3 ... You should be double checking before working on the circuit ... All in my opinion of course



That's a fair enough opinion,but

Real world economics will over ride all the safety regs that could be mustered against that procedure

Yes,the board should be isolated,but reality as opposed to text book procedure will ensure that it's a bigger danger than it needs to be

Code it reality or code it text book,mmmm

Code 3

 

[telectrix]

fence sitter. LOL.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

In order to code it has to not comply with 7671.....while no doubt a reg concerning ID of circuit conductors could be found,if a sparks was electrocuted disconnecting an energised conductor in a CU I have absolutely no doubt that an inquest would find him breaking H&S rules by not isolating first

 

[KAS1]

C3 for me it's only potentially dangerous if working on the board live, as it's already been identified by yourself and like someone has said mark up the board for future sparks stating that the "neutrals are not connected correctly, de-energise board before removing cover" Having said that if it was a new job I'd sack the spark for doing a rough job.

 

[tom79bmth]

I agree with kas1 code 3 all day long it not dangerous to general public or people working their only someone working on the electrics and well they should be competent so if they got a belt then they aint competent.

 

[telectrix]

name me 1 spark that has never had a shock of some sort in their working life.

 

[craig1000]

Its a tough one but I'm sticking with Tel, may call me Scam up tomorrow and offer both viewpoints and see what they say!