EICR Many many faults

[tennis ball]

Hi,

I conducted an EICR last week on a three bed property with a large extension.

• Broken earth on two lights downsatirs
• No ZS readings possible on the upstairs lighting circuit at any of the accessories. Switch drops wired in twin red no earth.
• Ring main no continuity >2000 ohms on all conductors
• Ring main 0.03 N-E 0.13 L-E 6.6 L-N IR readings
• 80 volts on switch wires of two seperate circuits
• 70 volts on ring earth

I have just emailed the customer with a proposal to fix the repairs. SWALLOWS HARD!!!

Originally I recommended a rewire as I did not want to give a fixed price for the repair work and the customer seemed unhappy to work on a rolling contract. I have no idea how long this wil take to repair as the fault could be anything anywhere.

One of the 80 volt readings was spotted at the time of the EICR but the other was not and I only spotted that today when I fitted a dimmer switch. When operating the dimmer the lamp would come on and go off after a couple of seconds. Its a Varilight IQ remote controlled dimmer switch. Its on a one way circuit.

With the dimmer in the off position I was reading 240 volts yet the lamp would not illuminate. Replace the lamp and despite 230volts it would not come on. So switch the dimmer "on" and well it just reads 240 again the same as the off position. Replace the lamp and it comes on for between 2 and 4 seconds before going off and then randomly coming on and off.

I tested for loose connections and fluctuating voltages and polarity but no joy. The fitting part of the pendant was hanging by a thread on the neutral originally which I could hear sparking inside!!! I replace this but it didn't make any difference. All terminations were sound including the switch.

Any help greatly appreciated. Hoping to go back and get amongst this job as I'm sure theres a lot to be learnt, just maybe not the most profitable job in the world. I do feel finding the ring circuit fault could be a nightmare too so if anyones got any tips please divulge!!

Ive got a strategy lined up and if I win this work I will be posting back and forth here for help if it goes ---- up.

Dan

 

[bigbaddave]

Why did you recommend a rewire?

 

[MDJ]

Totally amazed this thread didn't get more replies.

 

[tennis ball]

Why did you recommend a rewire?

Because its the most economical choice in the long run. Client intends to live there for a long time and because of the extent of the problems the repair work is going to run in to hundreds of pounds, probably something like £1000 with all the alterations as well.

Didn't mention that there is only one ring circuit it covers the entire house including the kitchen and the client has a lot of kitchen equipment. It wasn't done well in the first place as during the inspection I uncovered shoddy workmanship everywhere.

Also, downstairs the house is very big but is quite small upstairs, three bedrooms which are packed with furniture, laminate floor in the bathroom, master room has fitted wardrobes and the double beb takes up almost the entire room. Both smaller rooms are pretty full too.

The void above the huge living room extension is also inaccessible so the wiring for the sockets and lights in there must have been done during construction.

And, as mentioned before the customer was not happy for me to work on an hourly or daily rate.

 

[tennis ball]

Totally amazed this thread didn't get more replies.

Whys that?

 

[MDJ]

Well did you expect just one reply due to what you discovered?

 

[tennis ball]

I didn't really have any expectation. I just hoped someone could shed some light on the switch wire fault.

 

[MDJ]

You mean the lack of CPC? this is seen a fair bit, if the switch boxes have the plastic lugs and you did change a distboard, you would just add a note to the DB saying the light switch drops have no cpc, you could also add a written explanation and staple to the EIC you gave the customer after installation of the DB and any remedial works they agreed for you to carry out, HTH, as for the faults found, you will need to spend more time looking for the reasons why, let the customer know a more in depth look is required.

 

[Knobhead]

Why did you recommend a rewire?

So he can flease the customer.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hi,

I conducted an EICR last week on a three bed property with a large extension.

• Broken earth on two lights downsatirs
• No ZS readings possible on the upstairs lighting circuit at any of the accessories. Switch drops wired in twin red no earth.
• Ring main no continuity >2000 ohms on all conductors
• Ring main 0.03 N-E 0.13 L-E 6.6 L-N IR readings
• 80 volts on switch wires of two seperate circuits
• 70 volts on ring earth

I have just emailed the customer with a proposal to fix the repairs. SWALLOWS HARD!!!

Originally I recommended a rewire as I did not want to give a fixed price for the repair work and the customer seemed unhappy to work on a rolling contract. I have no idea how long this wil take to repair as the fault could be anything anywhere.

One of the 80 volt readings was spotted at the time of the EICR but the other was not and I only spotted that today when I fitted a dimmer switch. When operating the dimmer the lamp would come on and go off after a couple of seconds. Its a Varilight IQ remote controlled dimmer switch. Its on a one way circuit.

With the dimmer in the off position I was reading 240 volts yet the lamp would not illuminate. Replace the lamp and despite 230volts it would not come on. So switch the dimmer "on" and well it just reads 240 again the same as the off position. Replace the lamp and it comes on for between 2 and 4 seconds before going off and then randomly coming on and off.

I tested for loose connections and fluctuating voltages and polarity but no joy. The fitting part of the pendant was hanging by a thread on the neutral originally which I could hear sparking inside!!! I replace this but it didn't make any difference. All terminations were sound including the switch.

Any help greatly appreciated. Hoping to go back and get amongst this job as I'm sure theres a lot to be learnt, just maybe not the most profitable job in the world. I do feel finding the ring circuit fault could be a nightmare too so if anyones got any tips please divulge!!

Ive got a strategy lined up and if I win this work I will be posting back and forth here for help if it goes ---- up.

Dan

so if your carrying out ECRs (competant person)...why do you need to be asking for loads of help from us?
if you know what your looking at....and how to remedy it...then bat on....

 

[Octopus]

I read this and thought there was something we weren't being told....

 

[pjcomp]

No continuity on all conductors of the ring main - perhaps it's not meant to be a ring but two radials? In which case the fault would be the sizing of the MCB, unless the cable's 4mm ...

pj

 

[tennis ball]

So he can flease the customer.

Hi Tony did you mean fleece? Perhaps next time before you share your close minded thoughts you may wish to explore the post further?

 

[tennis ball]

I read this and thought there was something we weren't being told....

There are many things I haven't told. But that's what communication is for isn't it? Why don't you ask and maybe you can find out what your not being told?

 

[tennis ball]

so if your carrying out ECRs (competant person)...why do you need to be asking for loads of help from us?
if you know what your looking at....and how to remedy it...then bat on....

Hi Glenn, what is this forum for if not to talk to other electricians and share experience?

Have you ever felt that an extra opinion or exchange of views may help you to a wiser decision?


what would any forum be if not for the sharing of advice. If everyone had the same opinion as the one you have just expresses then there would be no forum, just a gathering of people who every time a question was asked felt they needed to throw it out due to the posters unworthiness!!!

ha ha ha!!!

 

[tennis ball]

You mean the lack of CPC? this is seen a fair bit, if the switch boxes have the plastic lugs and you did change a distboard, you would just add a note to the DB saying the light switch drops have no cpc, you could also add a written explanation and staple to the EIC you gave the customer after installation of the DB and any remedial works they agreed for you to carry out, HTH, as for the faults found, you will need to spend more time looking for the reasons why, let the customer know a more in depth look is required.

Hi Mike,

sorry looking back at the original post I can see its a bit of a hash! The two outcomes I was hoping to she'd some light on were fault finding on a ring main and the reading of 80 volts on the switch wire.

i have changed the consumer unit for a dual rcd board, upgraded the gas/water and main earth and am hoping to find the break in the upstairs lighting cpc. As you say a sticker will have to be stuck on the board as the switch drops have no cpc. All of the accessories are plastic.

The 80volts on the switch wire is baffling me and I can't think how that would happen.

i guess the only thing I can do is strip it down and test conductors end to end to investigate?

 

[Edd]

With the dimmer in the off position I was reading 240 volts yet the lamp would not illuminate. Replace the lamp and despite 230volts it would not come on. So switch the dimmer "on" and well it just reads 240 again the same as the off position. Replace the lamp and it comes on for between 2 and 4 seconds before going off and then randomly coming on and off.

Probley a stupid question, your not trying to dim CFL's are you?

 

[ayjay]

take all the sockets off and test each loop

 

[telectrix]

re the 80V. try using an analogue meter before looking for a fault that may only be induced voltage.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Re 80V:

If he hasn't got an analogue meter, try connecting a 230V lamp across the conductor in question and earth, and test.