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Brightspark2

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Looking at a job to install an electric gate. Now the problem arises with the sensor which will stop the gates closing if theres someone in the way. The problem is the gates open in opposite directions and basically have to go this way due to the limited opening the other way.

The gates are about 5ft high so the sensor cant go above the gate on each post as its too high, the sensors cant go on the post as they are, as one gate will block it depending on which side of the post you put the sensor.

So any ideas?

Ive done a little drawing too explain what I mean.



The red lines being the gates and the dotted red line are how far the gates open when they are swung the other way.

Now Id like to claim copyright on this drawing as it took some time and effort for 5 mins so I dont want it appearing on your websites or in your company portfolios. Thanks.
 

vaughant

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Put two sensors in series,one for each gate in line with the contactor/drive enable so if either is broken the gate stops,there could then be a time delay before it switches back and allows the drive enable/contactor coil to cut in.
Theres a world of switching gear to suit the application and I find ifm a cracking make.
May be worth putting a few photos and the wiring diagram up.
Lije the drawing you made and if "the scream" made all that money why can't you?
 
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Brightspark2

Brightspark2

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Thanks for the reply but with the gates open both sensors would be broken woudlnt they?...so the gate wouldnt close...
 

vaughant

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Thanks for the reply but with the gates open both sensors would be broken woudlnt they?...so the gate wouldnt close...
No because you only break into the coil of the "open" contactor.
If its a drive system just break into the open side of the drive system,it must use separate controls for open/close.
 
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Brightspark2

Brightspark2

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No because you only break into the coil of the "open" contactor.
If its a drive system just break into the open side of the drive system,it must use separate controls for open/close.
Thought I understood but then I lost it lol...

With going in line with the open side, wouldnt the gate still close if something was in the way?...

Once somebody says it you think aaaahhhh so simple...
 
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Brightspark2

Brightspark2

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Would this work ? Not sure of scale or whether its possible for car to clear.
View attachment 13944

I see the thinking, good idea but if something was in between, not just a car, then it would still close on them

similar to plugs,the tx and refelector (on the gates) would kick in when gates reach stop position,probably via a timer relay the irs make the circ to relay etc,your gonaa have to add a couple of relays here and there depending on the gate controller..

Buy Photoelectric Sensors Thru-beam transmitter rect detector,9/6m Telemecanique XULM0600 online from RS for next day delivery.

something along the lines of the above


View attachment 13945

This could be the way forward, a re-working of plugs idea. I like this, infact this is the way forward.

Thanks for idea's, good work.
 

Marvo

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I've seen reflectors that mount low level by drilling a hole in the road.

Drawing1.jpg
 

Guitarist

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I would just bear in mind that it will need to be a fail-safe system. If something were to malfunction and a vehicle was damaged, where would the blame lie?
I hope they are paying you well for designing, as well as installing a bespoke system. :)
 
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Brightspark2

Brightspark2

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I've seen reflectors that mount low level by drilling a hole in the road.

View attachment 13952
After thinking about this further, with the other method if something was to get in the way once the gates had started to close they wouldn't stop.

So infact this is the sort of method needed, will look into these road level ones later.

Thanks.

I would just bear in mind that it will need to be a fail-safe system. If something were to malfunction and a vehicle was damaged, where would the blame lie?
I hope they are paying you well for designing, as well as installing a bespoke system. :)
Thanks for the concern my friend, you could look into most jobs that way. Million and one possibilities. I see your point though.

I'm also getting paid 25,000 Ugandan dollars via western union, I haven't met the guy but I just had to give him my bank account number and sort code over the phone. All sounds legit.
 
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Brightspark2

Brightspark2

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Why not use safety edges on the gates Sliding Gate Safety Edges - Gate Motors - Security and Comfort at your fingertips would solve the problem of trying to get IR beams to work

I'll have a look at that once I'm home later, won't load up at the moment...

Located near Wigan?...where?...I'm from Wigan myself...

- - - Updated - - -

Why not use safety edges on the gates Sliding Gate Safety Edges - Gate Motors - Security and Comfort at your fingertips would solve the problem of trying to get IR beams to work

I'll have a look at that once I'm home later, won't load up at the moment...

Located near Wigan?...where?...I'm from Wigan myself...
 

spark 68

Electrician's Arms
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In addition to the above posters suggestions,

You can get induction loop detectors, which is buried in the drive (like a big metal detector), this usually consist of of say 4 - 8 turns of cable in a 8-10 foot by about 5-6 foot rectangle set into the drive, this is only to prevent the gates from closing on to a car.

Sometime you need to fit 2 or more pairs of sensors (ie.4 or more) to protect people, these can be on small pillars or posts, other types of sensor are available for the gate edges to prevent the gates closing on to people (force feedback sensors).

A look at the gate electronics manufacturers website and or tech. department should be your first step.

Ps. a Sliding gate may have been better here.
 
D

drew35

I've seen this scenario before at a garage, the two sets of sensors where mounted to far apart which allowed a car to stop between the two and the gates close on it. This happened when three cars left in a close row, the first stopped as it passed the last sensor, the second car was right between the gates, and the third car was before the first sensor. This left the middle car trapped, unable to move forward, or backwards far enough to break a beam, the result, car damaged before anyone could get out and run through the beam.
Now they went to the expense of a fitting an induction loop sensor, which worked well until the day a motorbike got trapped and damaged in the same way, as the bike was to high for the sensor to detect.
After that a pressure sensor was fitted to the ram, if it closed on something it opened and stayed open until reset. The only problem with that is it works fine on something like a car, but I think a child would be different.
 

CSEE

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i have dealt with CAME gates based in Nottingham they will offer you a great technical help service and will tell you what products to use. set an account up and get great discounts, and top quality product range.
Regards Darren
 

Guitarist

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Brightspark, there is a huge difference between installing a gate system and designing one with all that legally entails. Personally, I would get a professional gate/barrier company to come in and design/manufacture a safe, suitable system, then connect it as per their instructions. After working in industry for over 15 years and seeing what can happen when something goes wrong with PEC's and sensors, I would strongly recommend that you let someone else deal with designing this, however tempting it is to have a go yourself.
 
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Brightspark2

Brightspark2

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Brightspark, there is a huge difference between installing a gate system and designing one with all that legally entails. Personally, I would get a professional gate/barrier company to come in and design/manufacture a safe, suitable system, then connect it as per their instructions. After working in industry for over 15 years and seeing what can happen when something goes wrong with PEC's and sensors, I would strongly recommend that you let someone else deal with designing this, however tempting it is to have a go yourself.
I understand completely what your saying, all true.

This is only in verbal stages at the moment, I woudlnt be designing anything from scratch. A client asked, I looked and thought hhhhmmm how would we install the sensors. We have experiance in electric gates/barriers although not designing something from scratch more as you say installing pre-wired units and then wiring in the sensors, switches etc. :smiley2:
 
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Brightspark2

Brightspark2

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i have dealt with CAME gates based in Nottingham they will offer you a great technical help service and will tell you what products to use. set an account up and get great discounts, and top quality product range.
Regards Darren
Yeh had quite a lot of experiance with CAME units. Most of the sites we work at have CAME barriers.
 

vaughant

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Sorry bright spark 2 from your original post I assumed that you already had a generic system in place and were simply adding additional sensors to it to assist its functioning.
I could design something for you but realistically if your not familiar with control systems then it would be a pain really.
If it were me doing that it would be going through a mini plc in an auxiliary cabinet somewhere,that way you could program numerous sensors and conditions to be met before the gates moved,this is more for safety than convenience.
The minimum to me would be hard wired limits at the end of each gates rotation as us practice with moving objects in industry,sensors alone are never relied on.
 
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