ELECTRIC TRIPPING

[Buffyrose]

Hi - for those that like a riddle.

Washing machine (4.5 years old), suddenly tripped electrics, mid cycle.
I manually emptied machine, opened door, removed washing, pulled out machine to access plug.
Plug is fitted to an adapter (it has to to project past the outfall which is located immediately below), adapter goes into a single socket.
Socket has been tested OK with a hairdryer
Adapter has been tested OK in another socket, with hairdryer
Washing machine OK in another socket with an extension lead
Alternative adapter used in original socket, with hairdryer, all OK
All sockets used have fused switches above worktop and they all work.

The only scenario that won't work is the WM in its original configuration, ie, plug, adapter, socket. - trips the electrics on that fuse everytime.

The grey lead and plug is from the WM. The rectangular vent pipe underneath waste is an ex-tumble drier vent.

Other info - everything has worked fine for 5 years. There doesn't appear to be an earth from the house. House was upgraded 15 years ago so everything was new then. (not by us). There is a garage some 20 yards away, which takes its feed from the house, and there is an earth rod going into the ground outside the garage.

I know nothing about electrics, but logic dictates that this scenario can't be happening. What do you think?

Thanks everyone.

 

[telectrix]

firstthingi'd do would be to replace that single socket, move it higher up so that the adapter is no longer required. then a test of the circuit. i'd alsolokk for any signs of water ingress in back of socket or around plug/adapter.

 

[Buffyrose]

firstthingi'd do would be to replace that single socket, move it higher up so that the adapter is no longer required. then a test of the circuit.

Yes, I'd like to do that - or I thought of hard wiring it. But does that explain the illogical fact that things like the hairdryer work OK - and by the way, the WM trips as soon as I switch it on - so it's not taking much power at that point - hasn't started its cycle, its just immediate. I thought it might be the actual switch on the WM, but again that can't be right as it works OK in the other socket.

 

[telectrix]

tripping faults of RCDs can sometimes defy logics. without the appropriate test equipment you're trying to swat a mosquito blindfolded with hands tied behind your back.

 

[GBDamo]

Is it tripping an MCB or RCD.

Potentially faulty washing machine and the test socket is on a non -RCD protected circuit.

 

[Pete999]

Hi - for those that like a riddle.

Washing machine (4.5 years old), suddenly tripped electrics, mid cycle.
I manually emptied machine, opened door, removed washing, pulled out machine to access plug.
Plug is fitted to an adapter (it has to to project past the outfall which is located immediately below), adapter goes into a single socket.
Socket has been tested OK with a hairdryer
Adapter has been tested OK in another socket, with hairdryer
Washing machine OK in another socket with an extension lead
Alternative adapter used in original socket, with hairdryer, all OK
All sockets used have fused switches above worktop and they all work.

The only scenario that won't work is the WM in its original configuration, ie, plug, adapter, socket. - trips the electrics on that fuse everytime.

The grey lead and plug is from the WM. The rectangular vent pipe underneath waste is an ex-tumble drier vent.

Other info - everything has worked fine for 5 years. There doesn't appear to be an earth from the house. House was upgraded 15 years ago so everything was new then. (not by us). There is a garage some 20 yards away, which takes its feed from the house, and there is an earth rod going into the ground outside the garage.

I know nothing about electrics, but logic dictates that this scenario can't be happening. What do you think?

Thanks everyone.

Since when, has a hair dryer been a recognised form of proving a socket is working safey?

 

[telectrix]

Since when, has a hair dryer been a recognised form of proving a socket is working safey?

it's the 18th edition equivalent of the 17th edition kettle, if you remember that thread.

 

[Buffyrose]

tripping faults of RCDs can sometimes defy logics. without the appropriate test equipment you're trying to swat a mosquito blindfolded with hands tied behind your back.

Thanks - that's really helpful and in a way what I wanted to hear - so basically I need to call an electrician and get the circuit tested. Thanks again. PS: Trouble is, when do you get in an electrician, and when do you scrap the washing machine?!
[automerge]1581440520[/automerge]

Since when, has a hair dryer been a recognised form of proving a socket is working safey?

Ah, now 'safely' is a whole different subject - I was talking 'working' as opposed to not.
[automerge]1581440800[/automerge]

Since when, has a hair dryer been a recognised form of proving a socket is working safey?

Is it tripping an MCB or RCD.

Potentially faulty washing machine and the test socket is on a non -RCD protected circuit.

RCD. Thanks for your reply. The alternative socket is the matching one of the other one, one's for WM, one's for tumble drier. I don't have a tumble drier but I plugged the WM into that socket with an RCD protected extension lead and did my washing perfectly.

 

[littlespark]

My bet is on dampness in the adaptor.
You could try turning the socket upside down and using it without the adaptor. It’s behind the machine, so no ones going to see it.

the rcd that is protecting that socket may be more sensitive than the one in the other socket you tested it with.
Just because it has 30mA stamped on it only means it will trip before 30... could be 29, 28, 20 etc.
you could have an accumulation of other equipment on the same circuit, and the washing machine is tipping it over the edge.

 

[static zap]

Hair dryer probably has no earth so not a valid "adapter" test.
Get some one to sort cabling so no adapter needed !

 

[Buffyrose]

Thanks - that's really helpful and in a way what I wanted to hear - so basically I need to call an electrician and get the circuit tested. Thanks again. PS: Trouble is, when do you get in an electrician, and when do you scrap the washing machine?!
[automerge]1581440520[/automerge]

Ah, now 'safely' is a whole different subject - I was talking 'working' as opposed to not.
[automerge]1581440800[/automerge]


RCD. Thanks for your reply. The alternative socket is the matching one of the other one, one's for WM, one's for tumble drier. I don't have a tumble drier but I plugged the WM into that socket with an RCD protected extension lead and did my washing perfectly.

Now I've tried something else - plugged the washing machine into another extension lead that isn't RCD protected, and it tripped. So does that tell me something? I suppose it tells me that it IS the WM that's faulty.
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My bet is on dampness in the adaptor.
You could try turning the socket upside down and using it without the adaptor. It’s behind the machine, so no ones going to see it.

the rcd that is protecting that socket may be more sensitive than the one in the other socket you tested it with.
Just because it has 30mA stamped on it only means it will trip before 30... could be 29, 28, 20 etc.
you could have an accumulation of other equipment on the same circuit, and the washing machine is tipping it over the edge.

Yes, I thought I would turn the socket upside down - ridiculous scenario at the moment with the adapter isn't it.
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Hair dryer probably has no earth so not a valid "adapter" test.
Get some one to sort cabling so no adapter needed !

Ah, very good point - thanks.

 

[marconi]

if I was you I'd buy a new washing machine and have the house wiring checked. I use 5 years for the life of our home's white appliances. When I calculate say £300 purchase price per appliance over 5 x 365 = about 1825 days then a daily depreciation of 300/1825 = 16 p a day seems reasonable if used every day like ours are.

 

[Buffyrose]

Hair dryer probably has no earth so not a valid "adapter" test.
Get some one to sort cabling so no adapter needed !

Just tried a 3kw kettle with a non RCD protected extension cable, into the adapter and all fine. So looks like an issue with the washing machine.
[automerge]1581443750[/automerge]

if I was you I'd buy a new washing machine and have the house wiring checked. I use 5 years for the life of our home's white appliances. When I calculate say £300 purchase price per appliance over 5 x 365 = about 1825 days then a daily depreciation of 300/1825 = 16 p a day seems reasonable if used every day like ours are.

I think this is exactly what I'll do - run with the RCD extension cable to get me out of the immediate mess of no clean clothes, get the electrics checked and the socket moved, and then buy a new machine.

Thanks everyone.

 

[telectrix]

last time i wanted a new washing machine, the divorce from the first one cost a bomb.

 

[shaun1]

The washing machine may not be a write off, if it does turn out to be where the fault lies. If it has been used and abused daily for 5 years, then perhaps its not worth paying someone to investigate. However, if you live alone and only use it a couple of times a week, and it is in good condition, then might be worth getting an someone who does appliance repair out to have a look. Could just be a small leak in a pipe thats got into an electrical componant. Or a bad element.

 

[Buffyrose]

The washing machine may not be a write off, if it does turn out to be where the fault lies. If it has been used and abused daily for 5 years, then perhaps its not worth paying someone to investigate. However, if you live alone and only use it a couple of times a week, and it is in good condition, then might be worth getting an someone who does appliance repair out to have a look. Could just be a small leak in a pipe thats got into an electrical componant. Or a bad element.

Ah, thanks for that. It certainly shouldn't be past its sell by date - not over-used.

 

[ruston]

The washing machine may not be a write off, if it does turn out to be where the fault lies. If it has been used and abused daily for 5 years, then perhaps its not worth paying someone to investigate. However, if you live alone and only use it a couple of times a week, and it is in good condition, then might be worth getting an someone who does appliance repair out to have a look. Could just be a small leak in a pipe thats got into an electrical componant. Or a bad element.

And just as easy a clogged powder drawer letting water leak over and into the machine .
It does not take much to cause problems.

 

[static zap]

the 17th edition kettle, if you remember that thread.

Take great care with the Metal cased posh kettle , if the Earth connection
has failed in the adapter !
..It has no LEDs like a socket tester ..But you may light up!
(technical = thinking Class I with mains input filter appliances-ONLY)

 

[Buffyrose]

And just as easy a clogged powder drawer letting water leak over and into the machine .
It does not take much to cause problems.

OK, thanks for your ideas.

 

[Buffyrose]

Hi - for those that like a riddle.

Washing machine (4.5 years old), suddenly tripped electrics, mid cycle.
I manually emptied machine, opened door, removed washing, pulled out machine to access plug.
Plug is fitted to an adapter (it has to to project past the outfall which is located immediately below), adapter goes into a single socket.
Socket has been tested OK with a hairdryer
Adapter has been tested OK in another socket, with hairdryer
Washing machine OK in another socket with an extension lead
Alternative adapter used in original socket, with hairdryer, all OK
All sockets used have fused switches above worktop and they all work.

The only scenario that won't work is the WM in its original configuration, ie, plug, adapter, socket. - trips the electrics on that fuse everytime.

The grey lead and plug is from the WM. The rectangular vent pipe underneath waste is an ex-tumble drier vent.

Other info - everything has worked fine for 5 years. There doesn't appear to be an earth from the house. House was upgraded 15 years ago so everything was new then. (not by us). There is a garage some 20 yards away, which takes its feed from the house, and there is an earth rod going into the ground outside the garage.

I know nothing about electrics, but logic dictates that this scenario can't be happening. What do you think?

Thanks everyone.

FOLLOW UP - Electrician coming tomorrow - dare I ask ......

..... the actual situation now is this: The washing machine will work perfectly in any socket with an RCD extension lead but not directly into the socket, or through an adapter or with a non-RCD extension. So, why does it work if I add another 'layer' of RCD. I'm just interested to understand. Thanks