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I may end up going down the in house route.

Its largely from a legal standpoint. I don't want to give an insurer grounds not to pay out on a claim and I don't want to be in front of a judge.

Even the most experienced guys make mistakes and do daft things at times.
True. I'm struggling to think of any courses I have done or know of that would be any use in your case without going overboard in terms of content or cost. Perhaps think back to the courses you did that gave you competence in these specific areas ?
 
You could at least send them on a "safe isolation" course run by NICEIC. For some reason they make it last a day, but you at least get a bit of paper saying you've passed (assuming they do pass).

Beyond that, not sure if what you want exists.
 
Would one of those 3 week domestic installer courses cover most bases ?

 
True. I'm struggling to think of any courses I have done or know of that would be any use in your case without going overboard in terms of content or cost. Perhaps think back to the courses you did that gave you competence in these specific areas ?

Thats the problem, when did you last come away from a course feeling you'd learnt anything useful? :p:p

You could at least send them on a "safe isolation" course run by NICEIC. For some reason they make it last a day, but you at least get a bit of paper saying you've passed (assuming they do pass).

Beyond that, not sure if what you want exists.

Yeah, that's a good idea. ACG gas training supposedly covers some of it.

Would one of those 3 week domestic installer courses cover most bases ?


Yeah, could be a last resort. I'm already forking out for £10K in training for each of them and a lot to learn for them in the next few months. I don't honestly think they need anything that in depth.
 
Thats the problem, when did you last come away from a course feeling you'd learnt anything useful? :p:p

Honestly every electrical course I've ever done. The amount of useful stuff learnt varies, but i'd be lying if I said I'd learnt nothing useful on a course.

Just had a thought, if it's basic stuff you are looking at teaching your guys, honeywell do day courses teaching basic knowledge of heating systems.
 
Honestly every electrical course I've ever done. The amount of useful stuff learnt varies, but i'd be lying if I said I'd learnt nothing useful on a course.

Just had a thought, if it's basic stuff you are looking at teaching your guys, honeywell do day courses teaching basic knowledge of heating systems.

I think that, along with the NICEIC safe isolation and some in house magumba may be perfect. Cheers! that's a big help.
 
The problem you have is that the electrical trade bodies requires the person to perform safe isolation,safe isolation using approved test meters is easily taught and then understood by most people with a bit of common sense
The problem comes with identifying "what" requires isolation and what testing will ensure that isolation has been performed

Its these situations where a little knowledge is worse than no knowledge The partly trained guy not realising when he is out of his depth
There is no shortcut to a skill set,you either are skilled or you are not,there is no centre ground
The judge will want proof of competence and you will not be able to provide that proof
 
Evening folks,

I'm in the process of starting a plumbing and heating business, for some fairly long winded and boring reasons I want to employ a couple of guys from the outset. Plumbers don't seem to bother with any sort of electrical competence, I'd quite like to stay out of jail so was wondering if anyone could advise a basic electrical short course for the very limited electrical work they are likely to do. Essentially it will be connecting a flex to a FCU, possibly swapping a shower or basic fault finding. A fair bit of it is ELV these days which is reassuring.

Cheers
Dave
I understand your concern. When you say 'connecting a flex to a FCU' are you considering installation of said FCU.
I'm sure you would come across situations where this would be required. With the installation of such (fixed wiring), there are electrical requirements including installation testing and provision of a completion certificate, in this case a Minor Works cert. The testing would also require a basic check on the existing installation, in case of any problems. RCD protection is another factor to be considered.
If this is what you require, scheme membership would be advised, thus giving scope for further work, if required.
 
Also Don’t forget a relatively small job like adding a new fused spur for a boiler can escalate pretty quickly

No bonding , no Rcd , dodgy old existing wiring with no earth continuity

Your simple 45 min job suddenly got interesting
 
The problem you have is that the electrical trade bodies requires the person to perform safe isolation,safe isolation using approved test meters is easily taught and then understood by most people with a bit of common sense
The problem comes with identifying "what" requires isolation and what testing will ensure that isolation has been performed

Its these situations where a little knowledge is worse than no knowledge The partly trained guy not realising when he is out of his depth
There is no shortcut to a skill set,you either are skilled or you are not,there is no centre ground
The judge will want proof of competence and you will not be able to provide that proof

ACS gas training in theory proves a person competent to undertake work on heating and plumbing appliances and ancillary systems. Most companies seem happy to go with this alone. Honewell offer a several very cheap training courses for their controls. Finally the NICEIC course covers safe isolation. There is only generally one point of isolation in a heating system and 99% of the time it will be a FCU or MCB. I think those two training courses along with an inhouse competence scheme is fairly robust.
 
Its largely from a legal standpoint. I don't want to give an insurer grounds not to pay out on a claim and I don't want to be in front of a judge.

This seems like a pretty poor attitude to me, I would hav ethought any decent employers attitude would be more about keeping their employees safe than just covering their own arse when it goes wrong
 
I understand your concern. When you say 'connecting a flex to a FCU' are you considering installation of said FCU.
I'm sure you would come across situations where this would be required. With the installation of such (fixed wiring), there are electrical requirements including installation testing and provision of a completion certificate, in this case a Minor Works cert. The testing would also require a basic check on the existing installation, in case of any problems. RCD protection is another factor to be considered.
If this is what you require, scheme membership would be advised, thus giving scope for further work, if required.

I've got a tame spark in mind for notifiable work, what I'm looking for is a route to competence for the very specific heating/pluming only maintinace activites which I think I've found.
 
This seems like a pretty poor attitude to me, I would hav ethought any decent employers attitude would be more about keeping their employees safe than just covering their own arse when it goes wrong

If you read the thread I'm fairly clear the 3 day course or whatever is about legal proof the person is competent.

I have very little faith in this sort of thing so will provide in depth hands on training and hand holding until I'm certain they are safe to work alone.
 
If you read the thread I'm fairly clear the 3 day course or whatever is about legal proof the person is competent.

I have very little faith in this sort of thing so will provide in depth hands on training and hand holding until I'm certain they are safe to work alone.
Why ask in the first place, then???
I had a friend with a new boiler installed last year. The boiler 'engineer' made a right b***s up of a simple electrical job, spurring off a RFC, which could have resulted in serious repercussions but for his diligence in asking for my help.
 
Why ask in the first place, then???
I had a friend with a new boiler installed last year. The boiler 'engineer' made a right b***s up of a simple electrical job, spurring off a RFC, which could have resulted in serious repercussions but for his diligence in asking for my help.

Because in this day and age it's not what you know its what you've got a daft piece of paper saying you know. How many sparks with 40 years of experience do you know that have had to do NVQs?

I'm confident in ensuring they have the required skills, I'd like a third party verification a evidence of this.
 
Because in this day and age it's not what you know its what you've got a daft piece of paper saying you know. How many sparks with 40 years of experience do you know that have had to do NVQs?

I'm confident in ensuring they have the required skills, I'd like a third party verification a evidence of this.
What's with the NVQ bull? I've none. Previous equivalent and more. Are you thinking of Regulation upgrades?
 
What's with the NVQ bull? I've none. Previous equivalent and more. Are you thinking of Regulation upgrades?

Of the 15 or so courses I’ve had to do for my day job I’ve come away having learnt maybe two things from each. Training and competency is a multi million pound gravy train.

The NVQ or SVQ comment was about how many guys do you know that have decades of experience and an encyclopaedic knowledge of their trade yet there expected to prove themself to a teenager with a clipboard.

I’ve very little fiats in training providers these days, you learn a job from hands on experience and wisdom from journeymen
 
I’ve very little fiats in training providers these days, you learn a job from hands on experience and wisdom from journeymen
Is that 'faith'? If so, I'll agree, generally. It's just that, sometimes, needs must.
 
Is that 'faith'? If so, I'll agree, generally. It's just that, sometimes, needs must.

Yes sorry faith.

We’ve all got to start somewhere I guess.

Gas Safe seems to be the ultimate example of an organisation squeezing every last penny out of a trade. Everything you can think of is a separate qualification.
 

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