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Darius-parky

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What I would like to know if these Trade or Skill centres can give the skills and qualifications ( Paper certificates) in 6, 8 or 10 weeks for £4000 or £5000 why people bother to go to colleges or other learning centres for 2, 3 or 4 years.

Beside how can they make Tom, Dick and Harry elctricians in even 10 months let alone 10 weeks?

Come on your comments please, lets get the show on the road.
 
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S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
What I would like to know if these Trade or Skill centres can give the skills and qualifications ( Paper certificates) in 6, 8 or 10 weeks for £4000 or £5000 why people bother to go to colleges or other learning centres for 2, 3 or 4 years.

Beside how can they make Tom, Dick and Harry elctricians in even 10 months let alone 10 weeks?

Come on your comments please, lets get the show on the road.
Depends what you want out of it

but lets say you are a plumber or kitchen fitter, you need to installt shower circuits, or perhaps a new ring main

do you really need three years in college doing key skills, contract management, motors and motor controls etc etc?

And lets dispel a myth before we go on

"he's a 5 day wonder - I went to college for three years"

[email protected]*cks!!!

standard college is three 10 weeks terms per year, so thats maximum of 30 days per year

guy does 4 week course at training provider:

EAL DEI
C&G 2382
C&G 2392
C&G 2391

so thats 4 weeks = 20 days

thats the equivalent of two FULL terms at college

plus the guy has not had to do all the bulls*%t 'core' subjects, he's just had 4 weeks of full on electrics

why should the builder who has been doing rewires for years as part of his job, but now needs to go 'legit' because of Part P, sit in with a bunch of 18yr olds for 3 years?

I am not for against either system, each had its own place, and its horses for courses

and of course, you pays your money, you takes your choice
 
D

Darius-parky

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
OK Shake all points taken. But the problem is most of these guys don't mention anything about being Kitchen Fitter or Plumber. They all want to become electricians.

How about this then. New titles;

Grade 1 Electrician= All the qualifications and minimum 5 years proven experience in all areas of electrics ie Demostic, Commercial and Industrial.

Junior Electrician= Some of the qualifications with minimum 2 years.

Auxiliary Electrician= Someone with minimum 2382 who can only do demostic as part of his/hers main skill or business ie Kitchen Fitting or Plumbing
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Im all for titles , give everyone one ,it used to go on the colour of your hard hat,
at the end of the day ,you can call them what you like .

were all players, the trades diluted and fragmented so much now it dont matter anymore.
dream up a scheme for this yourself ,plenty of others are

good luck
 
D

Darius-parky

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Let us face it;

Parliament Makes the Laws
C&G Provide the Courses
IEE Provide the Study Materials and Regulations
JIB Provide the Ratings
NICEIC Provide the Approvals

And I am sure there are many others. No wounder why every body is so bloody confused.
 
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neilw

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
I think I can answer the college vs training company question - college courses are a lot cheaper :) Also, most of the guys on the 2330 courses that I used to work with were all after the "approved electrician" status without knowing 1) what that meant and 2) whether they actually needed it. To be honest, the idea of having to complete 2 or 3 year's worth of a 2330 course, then another 6-12 months for the NVQ L3, then the regs course and *then* the 2391 before you're supposedly ready to go out in the field proper is ridiculous. Judging from the end results, stretching the 2330 course out over such a long time was detrimental to their success - especially the ones that weren't making time to revise between sessions. Because these guys were already in the field before starting their courses, some of them didn't have a clue about safe isolation, what earthing was or why you don't chase in cables diagonally :D I have a lot of respect for the college students but if some of them had opted for an intensive training course before they started going out on jobs it might have avoided a few dangerous scenarios - one student was knocked off a scaffold by a belt, for instance.

Having seen the situation from both the college and training company side of things, I would definitely recommend people consider private training first. That said, there are a lot of good sparkies-turned-lecturers but you really want a lecturer that continues to work privately in addition to their college work, otherwise you end up being taught by somebody that hasn't been on-site for the last 10 years. Staff retainment also seems to be a problem for some colleges as well, which might ultimately mean that less and less colleges will be able to offer these courses.

Neil
 
M

mullock

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
i've almost completed my 10 week 2330 level 2 course. its taken me 10 weeks attending full time. Its cost £4000 not including food, accomidation and travel.

i decided i wanted to become a electrician, and wanted to learn the correct way with no short cuts. i decided to start from the bottom by doing the 2330 level 2 course and intend to do level 3 after also. Its been pointed out and i completely agree, you can have all the qualifications but that means nothing without some decent experiance. However it is extremely difficult to break into the inductry in this way without starting as a apprentice as i'm finding.

When i first considered doing the course i wondered how this could be done in 10 weeks compared with 2 years in collage especially as this is considerably cheaper at collage too.

As already pointed out, in collage it is around term time and either two evenings a week or one day. That totals to around 56 days in collage in 2 years give or take. My course is 50 days full time. We probably save them extra days seen as we don't have to revise from the previous weeks lesson every time before beginning.

The course is extremly basic as it goes, the fact that we had to be instructed and tested in manual handling and erect a ladder is like teaching to suck eggs. however i can understand that the course is based for all levels, But strongly believe there would be a much better standared of electricians being developed if more time was being spent on learning electrics instead of rediculous health and safety over and over again.

i recommend the intence courses if it can be afforded, I can't imagion how depressing it would be to learn health and safety for the first year before beginning to touch electrics.
 
G

gt74

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Mullock,

can I ask where you did your course?

GT
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
i've almost completed my 10 week 2330 level 2 course. its taken me 10 weeks attending full time. Its cost £4000 not including food, accomidation and travel.

i decided i wanted to become a electrician, and wanted to learn the correct way with no short cuts. i decided to start from the bottom by doing the 2330 level 2 course and intend to do level 3 after also. Its been pointed out and i completely agree, you can have all the qualifications but that means nothing without some decent experiance. However it is extremely difficult to break into the inductry in this way without starting as a apprentice as i'm finding.

When i first considered doing the course i wondered how this could be done in 10 weeks compared with 2 years in collage especially as this is considerably cheaper at collage too.

As already pointed out, in collage it is around term time and either two evenings a week or one day. That totals to around 56 days in collage in 2 years give or take. My course is 50 days full time. We probably save them extra days seen as we don't have to revise from the previous weeks lesson every time before beginning.

The course is extremly basic as it goes, the fact that we had to be instructed and tested in manual handling and erect a ladder is like teaching to suck eggs. however i can understand that the course is based for all levels, But strongly believe there would be a much better standared of electricians being developed if more time was being spent on learning electrics instead of rediculous health and safety over and over again.

i recommend the intence courses if it can be afforded, I can't imagion how depressing it would be to learn health and safety for the first year before beginning to touch electrics.
weel said, this is exactly my point. Guys come on the EAL DEI course I teach, they start at 8 on the Monday, by half past they will see their first CU, and by lunch time will be putting main bonding in

I have heard so many people complain about the amount of crap on the 2330 course.

i have had guys on their 3rd year come on my course and was shocked at their lack of knowledge

OK Shake all points taken. But the problem is most of these guys don't mention anything about being Kitchen Fitter or Plumber. They all want to become electricians.

How about this then. New titles;

Grade 1 Electrician= All the qualifications and minimum 5 years proven experience in all areas of electrics ie Demostic, Commercial and Industrial.

Junior Electrician= Some of the qualifications with minimum 2 years.

Auxiliary Electrician= Someone with minimum 2382 who can only do demostic as part of his/hers main skill or business ie Kitchen Fitting or Plumbing
come on then Darius, lets see if you will pick up the gauntlet that I have laid down a number of times on this forum when this same topic comes up:-

So to be a grade 1, what are 'all the qualifications' that a person might need?:rolleyes:
 
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D

Darius-parky

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
I understand when you to college one has to go through the whole course for howmany years it takes and pass the exams before one is awarded the certificate.

What about the intensive courses via Skills or Training Centres? Do you have to sit for exams there as well? Ok courses such as 2382 or 2391 or 2377 are short courses but then you would not be recognised as fully qualified in the eys of industry with those certificates?

What courses does one take in 10 weeks and what certificates would he/she be awarded? Are these intensive courses recognised by potential employers ie Electrical Cotractors or Companies?

That is my exactley question. What do need to be regarded as fully qualified? Do I need 2382, 2391/2392, 2330, 2360(which has stopped now), Bsc or HND in Electrical Engineering, etc? And then do you need 1, 2, 3, or 5 years experience? Do you have to have a experience in Demostic, Commercial, Industrial or just two or all three?

I have been taken on as an Electrician Mate. But I do every thing that my so called "Qualified Electrician" does and in most cases I do my jobs precisely according to the Regs stipulated in BS7671. But I am on £3.00 an hour less than him because he has got part 1 of this or part 2 of the other.

Now at the age of 50 after doing 30 years (On/Off) of electrical work I have gone back to college paying £76 per month for a period of 10 months to be told about homs law, force and all the other B*** Sh***.

And this is just the first year. So my initial question is how is that these Skill Centres can do courses in 6, 8, or 10 weeks.
 
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S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
I understand when you to college one has to go through the whole course for howmany years it takes and pass the exams before one is awarded the certificate.

What about the intensive courses via Skills or Training Centres? Do you have to sit for exams there as well? Ok courses such as 2382 or 2391 or 2377 are short courses but then you would not be recognised as fully qualified in the eys of industry with those certificates?

What courses does one take in 10 weeks and what certificates would he/she be awarded? Are these intensive courses recognised by potential employers ie Electrical Cotractors or Companies?
Come on Darius

why does everyone do this?:mad:

a number of times recently we have the 'fully qualified' crowd claiming that people who are not fully qualified should not be allow to buy electrical kit (Easyfox), or she not be allowed to work at all

and each and every time I challenge them to state what they mean by 'fully qualified'

and each and everytime they back off and shy away

so lets here it my friend, lets see what you have to say..........
 
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W

wayne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
Let us face it;

Parliament Makes the Laws
C&G Provide the Courses
IEE Provide the Study Materials and Regulations
JIB Provide the Ratings
NICEIC Provide the Approvals

And I am sure there are many others. No wounder why every body is so bloody confused.

well put
shakey ,look at the jib grading definitions ,you/me /we might not like them but the definitions are a starting point
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Come on Darius

why does everyone do this?:mad:

a number of times recently we have the 'fully qualified' crowd claiming that people who are not fully qualified should not be allow to buy electrical kit (Cirrus), or she not be allowed to work at all

and each and every time I challenge them to state what they mean by 'fully qualified'

and each and everytime they back off and shy away

so lets here it my friend, lets see what you have to say..........

Hold up Shakey - did I say that?:confused:
 
W

wayne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
i believe it was rabec on the part p how i hate thee post ,but i could be as confused as shakey
 

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