Emailing certificates

[BELEC]

Hi all . Thought id ask here as i get a quicker reply.

Does anyone email test certificate over to their clients / landlords or do our bodies want everything hand signed and in paper?

I usually print my own test certs with my logo and napit logo.

The situation is i do some work for a landlord who has properties all over the uk, (minor works / periodic's and ei certs) and if im honest its a lot quicker for me to email a copy along with invoicing / photos etc. As to printing one signing and then posting.

Thanks - barry

 

[telectrix]

the only problem is signing the email cert. unless you can do an electronic sig. in the pc.

 

[BELEC]

Yes was going to create one and try and include a extra line on the paperwork saying e-copy etc and make it read only file. the landlord already receives a few of some other electricians she has working for her nationwide. i will clarify with NAPIT. dont want to be gettin slapped wrists....

thanks for Input.

 

[timo1]

Why dont you print, sign and then scan? They can get it as a PDF copy. This seems to be acceptable for legal documents, I do it at work all the time without any issues as long as the original (signed copy) is stored.

 

[andyb]

I e-mail my certs all the time, what software are you using?
EasyCert has a file for signatures, you just scan your signature & save it in the software.
Works well.
When you've finished the cert, you just save as a pdf doc.

 

[BELEC]

I Bought a CD ROM on Ebay, similar to the easy cert exepct the price. Got all the files on it and got NAPIT to go over them on my lat assessment. had no problem with them.

Dont think its advanced as that with a signature section, will have a look.

print sign and scan is longer winded than buying the off shel certs and posting them.

im still doing minor works by hand, just the PIR (EICR) and EICs subject to time and were i am. im working from two addresses at the moment and only have printer and scan at one.

anyhows whats the point in me doin all this low energy work if were still choppin down trees to do paperwork

 

[BELEC]

Thanks for the help

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The Regulations allow for Certificates to be produced in any medium, as long as it's durable.
Whatever method is used, there should be a proccess to ensure that any copy cannot be tampered with.

 

[JamesBrownLive]

The Regulations allow for Certificates to be produced in any medium, as long as it's durable.
Whatever method is used, there should be a proccess to ensure that any copy cannot be tampered with.

And thats the inherent problem with a PDFs, anyone with a reasonable knowledge of Photoshop could alter a cert in a heartbeat.

I know because I have done it with other PDF files (not certs, and nothing illegal).

While we're on the subject....

I know some people have mentioned the fact that they withhold the certificate for any work done, until they have received payment. I have also seen mentioned that this is illegal, and frowned upon. With that in mind, I'm wondering if you could get around that by emailing an unsigned PDF file, and saying that the signed copy will be provided once payment is received??

Thoughts anyone...

Cheers

 

[JamesBrownLive]

Anyone with any thoughts on what I've asked?

 

[DurhamSparky]

if i can i always send cert as pdf not my problem if tehy alter it!! and no i don't withhold cert in liu of payment!! looks bad when you take them to court to get a charging order on the house!!

 

[Rockingit]

I don't always send the certs if I think there might be a payment problem. As far as I am concerned, in the legal sense it is 'goods or service' and the ownership of said does not pass hands until payment. It would be a bit like doing all your shopping at Tesco's on an IOU!! The bummer is trying to keep track of who you have and haven't sent the paperwork to, and done the online's for.

And yes, I do electronic whenever possible for the client, and just sign everything with a scanned signature and send it as pdf's.

 

[richy3333]

I have to agree with Durham. Certification and payment are two different matters. You are required to certificate your work. BS7671 doesn't say you can withhold the cert until paid. Any smart arse client or lawyer I'm sure would just argue that they hadn't paid your invoice because they'd not had the cert - the argument can be used both ways. Payments or lack of them should be dealt with by way of your terms and conditions. To be honest if I thought a client wasn't going to pay, I wouldn't do the work in the first place as I'm in business to make money

I use easy cert and have scanned my signature in. It works really well. Nearly all my clients get emailed PDF certs.

 

[Rockingit]

I disagree. I am not obliged to conduct my life according to BS7671. I am obliged to ensure that the service I SELL is compliant to BS7671.

This does introduce an interesting problem though: Hypothetically speaking, you supply and install a new CU for a domestic customer who then doesn't pay their bill. Until they've paid their bill, the parts remain yours (subject to your T's & C's). So you get fed up, go to the premises and retrieve YOUR property. Which leaves them with a set of live tails and a dead house.

 

[richy3333]

I agree with you Rockingit that you are not obliged to conduct your life according to the Wiring Regs. You are however required to conduct your electrical business in accordance with the Regs, and as you are in England, and with the scenario you describe, the Building Regs (CU change is notifiable). So you are obliged to install then inspect, test and issue a certificate etc. Also under scam arrangements aren't the Building Regs certs supposed to be issued within a certain period - 28 days?

Each to their own, and I'm not trying to tell you how to run your business, but I'd never withhold a certificate, if nothing else it just gives the customer another argument. I make sure my business terms are clear, concise and always given to the customer. I only ever had 1 bad customer when working down in England and they soon paid with the assistance of the Small claims section of the County Court. Maybe the Scots are just more honest and better at paying

Many moons ago I was told that you weren't allowed to remove fitted parts from a customers house. I'm not sure if 'title of the goods' would pass to the house owner or not, even if they hadn't paid. I'm no expert so don't know why this is but I think it was something to do with it 'being attached to the fabric of the building'. Anyhow, no homeowner is going to let you back in to their house under your described scenario, so you would be committing some sort of crime - aggravated trespass, burglary, theft etc. PC plod would just tell you to fight it out in the civil courts for your money?

 

[Rockingit]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating this as a preferred way of working.

I don't know about the 'fabric of building' issue that you refer to, so won't comment further on that. But I do come back to my original point that nothing is worth anything until it's paid for. The notification to LBA that you quote requires ME to pay them Money. That's why when I do a quote there is ALWAYS a single line item for issue of certificates and notification (£4.50 + VAT if anyone wants to know).

Therefore, it becomes part of contract UPON PAYMENT.

And you're right, no home owner is going to invite you in to plunge them into darkness, but that's why it's an interesting hypothetical point.

Someone is bound to start talking about H&S and EAWR and why I'm wrong...... My question to them is what do they think the 'W' stands for?