Emergency lighting design

[Welchyboy]

I am designing a small reasonably simple emg lighting system for the job im working on currently and have layout plans of the building and proposed positions of call points, fire extinguishers, exits etc most of the info i need, but how do i obtain photometric design data, is this something a manufacturer will supply specifically with their fittings or are they standard values for a size of lamp?, i have the spacing guides etc from guide books, the 5266 regs dont really explain anything about this that i can see or am i missing something.
i also need details of this for the certs.

it needs to be a proper job as it will be my first Emg light job since becoming NIC A/C, and i know my AE will be all over it come inspection time!!

also has anyone bought the guide to filling in specialized certs?, is it any good and does this contain better info on EMG lighting certs as there are parts i am unsure on.

and why does the company owners all stare at me like im talking a foreign language when i ask to see their companies risk assessment of their premises, apparentlt they all have to have one prepared!?

 

[needasparks]

Think you have answered your own question, if you know the manufacturer your using just get them to take care of it and its free if you use their fittings and you don't deviate from their design. Not all fittings have the same lux output in respect to their photometric data and the NIC are hot on the design side of your install so cover yourself fella. I say this as I am a battle scared from my run in with them on this actual situation a few years back.

 

[Welchyboy]

so its not something you can work out yourself with their data?

What happened if you dont mind me asking?

 

[DurhamSparky]

ensure all exit points are fitted with Maintained lights... any non natural light areas MUST be also fitted with em lights which can be incorporated in a normal fitting.

certs are pretty straight forward to write out..!

 

[needasparks]

Having the design data is the only way to prove it meets the requirements even though we all know x lights would suffice and positioned correctly. I had a commercial job a couple of years ago which i part rewired some rear staff areas, I put a couple of emergency bulkhead lights in FOC mainly as they did not have any in that area and I was trying to impress the client as they had a lot of work for me and it was missed on their works order. Did not think any more about it as was not designed for and i was doing them a favour as they had nothing there before. job got pulled by AE and i got the third degree over it for helping someone out and not getting it schemed first. All positions of furniture, colour of walls and floors are taken into the calculation.
Gone are the days were you could use your judgement on there position etc.

 

[Welchyboy]

Having the design data is the only way to prove it meets the requirements even though we all know x lights would suffice and positioned correctly. I had a commercial job a couple of years ago which i part rewired some rear staff areas, I put a couple of emergency bulkhead lights in FOC mainly as they did not have any in that area and I was trying to impress the client as they had a lot of work for me and it was missed on their works order. Did not think any more about it as was not designed for and i was doing them a favour as they had nothing there before. job got pulled by AE and i got the third degree over it for helping someone out and not getting it schemed first. All positions of furniture, colour of walls and floors are taken into the calculation.
Gone are the days were you could use your judgement on there position etc.

Jesus thats rediculous! do you think he would of been ok if you had certed it ok and just worked it out roughly with their spacing recommendations?

 

[needasparks]

Jesus thats rediculous! do you think he would of been ok if you had certed it ok and just worked it out roughly with their spacing recommendations?

Lol, I can guess what they would say to that.
As I said, you must know who you are likely to use for the gear so make them work for it, they charge us enough for the equipment.
Its no big deal really just to get it done properly and if a problem is found with it later your covered. Thats all the AE really is checking for that you have done the correct homework before installing. Then your cert has the correct info to go with it as it states within it.
It seems over the top for a small job but it separates you from a monkey that just throws them in like we all have seen in some buildings without a thought and gives you an easy time feeling smug on the day of inspection.

 

[alarm man]

this is a decent book,gives a good understanding of layouts etc

Electrician's Guide to Emergency Lighting: Amazon.co.uk: Paul Cook: Books

 

[Welchyboy]

this is a decent book,gives a good understanding of layouts etc

Electrician's Guide to Emergency Lighting: Amazon.co.uk: Paul Cook: Books

thanks alarm man i actually have that book allready and it has helped me no end and does have examples of spacing tables in there,
i thought that it would be quite simple to use these from the appropriate manf. to design your own system to a basic standard,

i cant beleive i have to get a company to design it for me just to satisfy the NIC, no doubt they are going to well over spec whats needed to boost their sales, i could understand if it was a substantial project

think im gonna give tech line a call

 

[Welchyboy]

Lol, I can guess what they would say to that.
As I said, you must know who you are likely to use for the gear so make them work for it, they charge us enough for the equipment.
Its no big deal really just to get it done properly and if a problem is found with it later your covered. Thats all the AE really is checking for that you have done the correct homework before installing. Then your cert has the correct info to go with it as it states within it.
It seems over the top for a small job but it separates you from a monkey that just throws them in like we all have seen in some buildings without a thought and gives you an easy time feeling smug on the day of inspection.

needasparks - so would you send them building drawings for them to design from?

 

[needasparks]

If they are available yes or you can make them up yourself. As long as they have the information they need to produce them.

 

[alarm man]

thanks alarm man i actually have that book allready and it has helped me no end and does have examples of spacing tables in there,
i thought that it would be quite simple to use these from the appropriate manf. to design your own system to a basic standard,

i cant beleive i have to get a company to design it for me just to satisfy the NIC, no doubt they are going to well over spec whats needed to boost their sales, i could understand if it was a substantial project

think im gonna give tech line a call

i think your worrying too much wb,just design it as you see fit,then slightly over spec it,you will be fine,ive seen some brand new buildings with just the basics and they have passed,i mean when you read the em guide for sparks how many buildings have you seen to that spec with the labels on fittings etc,ive seen one and thats it,all the others have not been to the guide,so if you design it as per the guide you will be on the ball imo..

 

[Welchyboy]

i think your worrying too much wb,just design it as you see fit,then slightly over spec it,you will be fine,ive seen some brand new buildings with just the basics and they have passed,i mean when you read the em guide for sparks how many buildings have you seen to that spec with the labels on fittings etc,ive seen one and thats it,all the others have not been to the guide,so if you design it as per the guide you will be on the ball imo..

Yeah your probably right cheers

 

[micknew]

The emergency exit lights above doors do not usually have to be maintained unless it is a building used by the public (theatre etc).
Therefore non maintained may be accepted by the local authority/fire brigade, check with them before designing scheme.