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My flat has high levels of EMF, Electromagnetic Field from floor wiring / Electric Field from ceiling wiring. It is often is above safe levels for continued exposure. Two years ago I had 2 incidents when EMF was so strong it made my entire body shake visibly - I had to run to get out of the flat.
I would like to know;
1) what could have been the cause of these two incidents?
2) what are the physical consequences of remaining in this situation for a sustained length of time when said incidents are occurring?
3) since the problem remains, what is the probability that these incidents could happen again - am I correct to be scared?
 
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DPG

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How are you measuring this emf?

How do you know it was an electrical field that caused your body to shake? Does this affect anyone else, eg visitors to your property?

A field of such high strength would cause other issues also.

To put your mind at rest you could get an electrician in to check your installation. I would be tempted initially to not mention the reason for the request.
 

James

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As above, what device are you using to measure emf?

I am not sure what the safe limits are but I expect they will be different for different frequency’s.
If you could post a link to the safe levels it would be helpful.

Also, do you have WiFi, mobile or portable phones, a microwave?
If so, it would be good to repeat your tests with these items unplugged.
 

DPG

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Good point about different frequencies. What frequency is your test equipment showing? If it's in the RF range, are you near to any radio transmitters?
 

pc1966

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It would require an astonishingly high EMF field to cause a sensation as you have described, so most electricians would be sceptical of that explanation. However you clearly are concerned and have experienced something that is worrying so it should not be ignored.

While an EMF field large enough to cause sensation is unlikely, a touch current from a fault causing an unpleasant (and downright dangerous) sensation is quite likely from a faulty electrical appliance or wiring installation. So as already said, you should get someone in to check for those sort of issues.

Is your flat rented? If so has it had any tests recently such as an EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) and/or have plug-in appliances (such as stand lights, etc) been tested (PAT = Potable Appliance Testing).

For PAT testing the gov site has more background:

If nothing is found to explain it electrically you ought to see your GP as there may be a medical explanation for the symptoms you describe, or it may also a psychological effect triggered by stress, etc. These are things that should be taken seriously as well.
 
Wiring errors are the greatest cause of elevated EMFs. Have an electrician look for standing neutral to earth faults, crossed circuits, broken ring mains, damaged mains neutral, ect. Unplug Wifi and other devices when not in use.

There is also the possibility your physical symptoms could be from causes outside of elevated EMFs.

As others have mentioned, how are you reading these EMFs? Do have a number at the time when the shaking started?
 

Megawatt

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Wiring errors are the greatest cause of elevated EMFs. Have an electrician look for standing neutral to earth faults, crossed circuits, broken ring mains, damaged mains neutral, ect. Unplug Wifi and other devices when not in use.

There is also the possibility your physical symptoms could be from causes outside of elevated EMFs.

As others have mentioned, how are you reading these EMFs? Do have a number at the time when the shaking started?
I have on my property a tower with 220,000 volts running through it and it is 90 feet from my house and I have often wondered could it harm me or my family but it’s been 22 years and as far as I can tell no problems
 

pc1966

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While there is a lot of conspiracy-nutters on the internet, this site has various bits of info on the limits, largely UK based, but that has its policy (so far) closely aligned with the EU:

An electric field exceeding 9 kV/m would be all but impossible in a typical flat, but a magnetic field exceeding 360 µT could be caused by the sort of faults that Cookie mentioned. This is still a low magnetic field, for comparison the Earth's static field that a compass responds to in the UK is around 50 µT.
 
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While there is a lot of conspiracy-nutters on the internet, this site has various bits of info on the limits, largely UK based, but that has its policy (so far) closely aligned with the EU:

An electric field exceeding 9 kV/m would be all but impossible in a typical flat, but a magnetic field exceeding 360 µT could be caused by the sort of faults that Cookie mentioned. This is still a low magnetic field, for comparison the Earth's static field that a compass responds to in the UK is around 50 µT.
To add, the earth's field isn't rising and collapsing 50/60 times a second. Natural EMFs our bodies have evolved around- AC power is a relatively new thing.
 

Vortigern

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I would accept the fact that some people are extraordinarily sensitive to EMF. You may be one of them. I assume you are using a hand held device that measures and goes red when a high EMF is present. Anyway I was thinking it may just be that you have something wrong with you such as a heart problem, and your sensitivity to EMF may trigger a sub-clinical condition. Now, I just want to make clear that I am not saying it is in your head and belittling what you are asking about. I am aware at the moment there are drugs that have been given to women, and the mesh problem for women, who when complaining of pains etc. are dismissed as hysteria. I don't want to sound like that! Have you had any check up of late. Did you discuss the shaking at all with your GP?
 
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  • #12
Many thanks to all who responded.
Additional info as requested;
  • I used an EMF Tester metre by Meterk, measures Electromagnetic and Electric Field
  • 2 other people had physical sensations inside flat. I am almost certainly EMF Hypersensitive
  • other physical issues I have include; insomnia, headaches, heart palpitations, body vibrations, head feeling heavy/going numb
  • Flat was EICR tested - no issues. Electrician had no knowledge of EMF. BUT readings occur when electricity in flat is off at circuit board, come from ceiling and floor, indicating the buildings main wiring (conclusion of EMF contractor)
  • Had independent EMF contractor do survey, showing high EMg and EF readings
  • 2 years ago was within 500m of 3 RF transmitters, 1 started operating around that time
  • Had medical checks for blood, heart. Had Hyperthyroidism 2 years ago - palpitations a symptom. However, this never occurred out of flat, except near to some electrical equipment (wi-fi, refrigerators, some computers). Not had it for 1 year but palpitations still occur. Heart checked recently - ok but anomalies found when close to some electrical equipment - and at home when not close to electrical equipment.
  • Worked with Special Needs children and young adults for 20 years (inc behavioural difficulties and ASD, stress levels probably lower than normal!
  • When incidents happened 2 years ago; 1st occurred when got home from work about 6.30 pm, 2nd on Saturday around 3.00pm
  • To Megawatt; I don't believe RF or other outside EMF is a major factor for me, although I sometimes feel it. I believe that most people do not feel EMF, but it may still affect them. Best to be safe and check it. Not sure what type of metre you need - most EMF metres are calibrated for domestic situations, but may pick up outside frequencies.
  • Have attached EMF detailed guideline levels below from EM Watch.

Magnetic Field Measurements and Survey Results At EM Watch, we categorise low-frequency magnetic fields in terms of their potential to cause health effects:
0 – 1 mG Negligible risk
1 – 2 mG Low risk
2 – 5 mG Moderate risk
Over 5mG High risk

Electric Field Measurements and Survey Results At EM Watch, we categorise low-frequency electric fields in terms of their potential to cause health effects:
0 - 2 V/m Negligible risk
2 - 10 V/M Low risk
10 - 25 V/m Moderate risk
Over 25 V/m High risk

The ICNIRP ‘reference levels’ for the public are:
100 microteslas for magnetic fields
5000 volts per metre for electric field


As you can see, safe levels vary, and there is NO legal UK set limits, only guidelines. It is interesting how high the ICNIRP guideline are - they are a body called The Energy Networks Association, which, I presume, are made of electricity companies....
This also does not give guideline levels for prolonged exposure in homes.

I hope all this information is helpful. Many thanks again for any input.
 

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DPG

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At what frequencies are the high levels of emf?

What type of radio transmitters are near you?
 
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For DPG;

Have Electromagnetic and Electric Field frequencies in flat.
EMg often measures levels between 2 - 10 mg / 20 - 100 uT
EF often measures levels between 10 - 100+ V/m

Both appear to fluctuate according to usage of electricity by 29 other residents of my block of flats; had EMF survey that recorded 'satisfactory' results on early Monday morning when electricity usage was low. Second EMF survey recorded very high levels of EF, high levels of EMg at Sunday lunchtime when electricity usage was high.
Readings come from main buildings wiring, not from my flat (or flats above and below).
2 years ago the disturbance started at the end of July, the beginning of the school summer holidays. We have 10+ teachers in the building, so they would all be home more then.
Second EMF started at the beginning of April this year, when the 'lock down' kicked in, so most residents would have been home then.

Did not get RF frequencies measured in June as couldn't afford fee and was more concerned with EMF from inside flat. This was only done recently (end of June 2020) as the main disturbance seemed to abate significantly to a level that would disturb me just once a month.

Radio transmitters near me (that I know of) are from a hospital, one is for their ER, the second from a Heliport. The Heliport opened around the time of these 2 incidents 2 years ago.
A Radio Transmitter from a Police station was operational 2 years ago, stopped when it closed about a year ago. When the second EMF disturbance started again in April 2020, I assumed it was from the Police station's Radio Transmitter becoming operational (due to the current emergency situation). However, I was told that this did not happen.

Many thanks for your interest!
 
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Thanks again to Cookie for the link to UK Policy summary by www.emf.info
I did come across this, but forgot it in the sheer amount of information I gathered. However, it is important, especially as my flat's recorded levels often exceed those given;

EMg often measures levels between 2 - 10 mg / 20 - 100 uT
EF often measures levels between 10 - 100+ V/m

Relevant UK Policy info;

Exposure limits
Exposures to the general public in the UK should comply with the ICNIRP 1998 exposure limits in the terms of the 1999 EU Recommendation.

In practical application this means:
  • an electric field of 9 kV/m
  • a magnetic field of 360 µT
  • both applying where the time of exposure is significant, essentially homes, other places where people might stay overnight, and schools.

I am assuming that kV/m is the same as V/m?
 

Vortigern

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I think a quick search will show many products that can shield you from EMF. There are two approaches one is body shielding and the other whole flat/house shielding. I imagine body clothing with built in shielding would be much cheaper.
 
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To telectrix; thanks for your interest, that was very funny.
Unfortunately, my symptoms don't happen anywhere else outside the home, except for when near certain types of wi-fi, refrigerators and computers. And not all the time at home, thank goodness.
I would welcome a medical diagnosis, then I could do something about it, hopefully. Apart from cancer - nobody in their right mind would want that!
And I assume that the 2 EMF Tester metres, plus the independent EMF contractor's metres are not faulty.... It would be an extremely silly person to argue with scientific technology!
I hope you are able to sort out your alcohol-induced dizzy spells. How I wish I had those to explain this situation!
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To Vortigern, many thanks for that advice; I have already got effective shielding for my bed which works most of the time. It is probably why my health has not been too affected this second time - the first time (2 years ago) I got Hyperthyroidism and actually moved out for 4 months. Unfortunately, I cannot do so this time.
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Thanks James and DPG,
as you can see from comparing advice on safe levels from EM Watch to em.info and the ICNIRP levels, they are significantly different for EF. And 900 V/m is extremely high!
A number of other sources give safe levels as under 10 V/m.
As I have said, all levels are recommended, but no official levels are given for homes. The ones given by em.info and the ICIRP are 'with particular reference to power lines' - outside of the home.
 
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Being honest 2-10mg isn't that high... in the states I'd expect something like 100mg with our grounding practices...
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If anyone is curious- here is video describing common causes of elevated EMFs in buildings. The problems disclosed here are abundantly common in the US, however I'd imagine that they also happen in UK wiring systems to some degree give or take.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAAZCMns8YM



Not really discussed in this video but bonding of gas, water, and rebar in TN-C-S systems can also "naturally" elevate magnetic fields in a building.
 
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Lucien Nunes

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When assessing what is 'safe', 'normal', 'dangerous' etc., please be very careful to refer only to primary sources of peer-reviewed, mainstream scientific studies that are relevant to your situation.

There is an industry built around selling test meters, shielding products etc that ranges from probably-valid-but-maybe-not-very-relevant, to outright quackery and fraud. Being generous, I would say that the industry tends to be out of step with the few reliable, relevant studies that exist. For example, some guidelines from 'EMF practitioners' and safe/unsafe bands marked on test meters are chosen to reflect an 'ideological' approach rather than an evidence-based one. A cynic would observe that the more people whose homes fall into the 'dangerous' band on their gadget, the more shielding products they can sell.

For example, to me as an electrical engineer, classifying >25V/m as 'high-risk' is pretty extreme, but I have the advantage of working with these numbers and units in the real world. I know what 25V/m is like; I could create it accurately in the lab, I could design, build and calibrate an instrument of my own to measure it. As an equivalent example, if I proposed that a turkey weighing 60 kilograms would take 5 minutes to cook, you would tend to distrust my views on cookery because, like most people, you probably have a good general idea about turkeys and ovens; but I fear that is how some of these figures on EM safety read to the engineer.

I cannot stress too highly, when judging the relevance of information on this particular subject, avoid opinions, mine or anyone else's, and take care when assessing the recommendations of anyone who sells 'medical' gadgets. Use proper studies from mainstream science, as their academic rigour is likely to make them infinitely more valuable than a lot of what you will read on the internet.
 
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Hi Cookie, thanks for the video and the additional info.
The more I find out about this issue, the more worried I become - most people are not aware of EMF and possible health levels and there is a lack of research that is accepted on this subject - which is probably why my landlord (a major Housing Association) is ignoring my requests to investigate this issue with appropriate tests - they insist normal tests are adequate.
Also, the accepted dangerous levels are wishy-washy or fantastic ( 1000 V/m being deemed acceptable is amazing unless one is far away from it. But then it would not be an issue anyway!) And, of course, no definitive safe levels appear to exist for homes.

To some people though, high or even low levels can be an issue, as is my situation. I believe I have become sensitive to this through exposure to high levels over time; I probably did not feel it until my system became overloaded. Also, when I sleep well, I am much less sensitive and feel it much less. This is actually more worrying; since I don't always feel the medium to low levels, I don't get that physical warning....

It is worth bearing in mind that sleep issues and cancer levels are rising in populations, which should be surprising as people are more aware of healthy living and nutrition, and medical practices are more advanced. I wonder what correlation there is with increased use of electrical equipment and wi-fi? It would be very interesting to find out.
 
Some time back a friend of mine bought a device to measure EMFs in his home and was alarmed by its findings. He bought this on impulse, rather than through prior concern about the issue.

He discussed this with me and at first I took the information at face value, but began to think about some of the readings and suggested he tested a few regularly use electrical devices. When he tested a hair dryer his opinions changed dramatically and he then understood that the frequency of detected fields was rather important, which his device gave no indication of.

I'm not dismissing the OP's experience and I know that some people can be exceptionally sensitive to issues that don't affect the general population, but I'd echo a previous comment about how an industry has grown around the testing of EMFs and fairly expensive solutions.
 

Lucien Nunes

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Also, the accepted dangerous levels are wishy-washy or fantastic (1000 V/m being deemed acceptable is amazing...)
Please could you give some sources on which you base your assessment that '1kV/m being deemed acceptable is amazing.' I am interested to know what kind of sources you are using, out of concern that they might not be reliable. I am not doubting your experiences, BTW.
 
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  • #25
To Lucien Nunes, many thanks for your advice.

It IS extremely difficult to get official, approved information on many things around this issue, including safe EMF levels, health effects, metres, accepted building practices and shielding materials.
That is why I have taken time and trouble to ask people who have that specialised knowledge of this subject, including 2 EMF surveyors, 2 electricians and a person with a PHD in Engineering. One recommended many ways to minimise exposure and material that shields, which have definitely helped - and most strategies are free or else not expensive. She actually has EMF sensitivity as well - much worse than mine, and has worked as a medical doctor.

Which brings me to the main point; unless one actually has EMF sensitivity, it is very difficult to accept that there is an issue/danger being exposed to 'medium' to 'high' levels of EMF - how can one know if you can't actually feel any physical disturbance? I definitely understand this.
And, of course, most people's physical body are very resilient, and could adapt and remain unaffected.

However, the question is, would a person deliberately expose themselves to this over a long period of time (say 1 month) in order to find out? Most people, just from basic, common sense knowledge of electricity, would certainly not do this!

I wonder, Lucien, what EMg and EF levels you would say are safe for prolonged exposure (1 month)? Even better, if you have good sources for this information please share it - I am here to learn, otherwise there is no point to joining this forum. I am talking to prolonged exposure in the home only.

It is also worth pointing out that lack of conclusive and approved safe levels in households can only benefit companies who manufacture or sell electrical products. And this is a huge growth market, which most governments would not want to suppress, for obvious reasons.

I have already given 3 sources for EMF levels info; emf.org, the ICNIRP and EM Watch.

I DO NOT want to get into an argument or discussion about accepted or unaccepted safe levels, or different sources of information - this cannot be proved 1 way or another since this does not exist!

Please look at my original query - let us not get too distracted, however interesting these other avenues may be!
 
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Just wanted to repeat my post;

My flat has high levels of EMF, Electromagnetic Field from floor wiring / Electric Field from ceiling wiring. It is often is above safe levels for continued exposure. Two years ago I had 2 incidents when EMF was so strong it made my entire body shake visibly - I had to run to get out of the flat.

I would like to know;
1) what could have been the cause of these two incidents?
2) what are the physical consequences of remaining in this situation for a sustained length of time when said incidents are occurring?
3) since the problem remains, what is the probability that these incidents could happen again - am I correct to be scared?


I have some additional info/ideas of the cause
  • since EMg comes mainly from the floor and EF from the ceiling, could be that when both were particularly high and merged, it caused such a strong field?
  • does the above have similarities to a naked electric current that is diffused over a space, or is that impossible?
  • EMF contractor said it was possible that a strong RF may have come in come outside, by itself causing the incident, or merging with high levels of EMg / EF?
  • Could the high levels of EMF in the flat attract RF from outside?
You'll have to forgive me if any of the ideas are ridiculous!

Many thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.
 

Lucien Nunes

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I wonder, Lucien, what EMg and EF levels you would say are safe for prolonged exposure (1 month)
I cannot say, as I have not carried out a relevant, controlled, reproducible, statistically significant study. I could quote or link to studies by others, but they would probably show confirmation bias, i.e. I would tend to link preferentially to studies that agree with my own views, so it is better that I don't.

Re. the sources you mention, ICNIRP I would tend to trust in general, due to their transparency. They have rigid operating principles to help maintain impartiality, e.g. they do not accept funding from makers of electrical or electronic equipment or shielding products. Their commission members must be academics who are not employed by commercial organisations etc.

EMwatch.com I would not consider an impartial source of information. It appears to be one individual or company whose identity is not explicitly stated, who is a provider of services e.g. surveys, and is a seller or promoter of protection products. I will save my thoughts on the content of the website and some of the links on it.

emf.org does not seem to be relevant.

Returning to your original questions, I would say that they are extremely difficult to answer in a meaningful way since they have to be interpreted in the possible context of you being highly sensitive to EM fields, but without any indication to what extent. For example, your first question supposes that high levels of EM fields were responsible for your symptoms during those two events, however the field strengths you later mention are not abnormally high.

I do not think anyone can give truly relevant and dependable advice regarding your specific experiences via a web forum. Hence, in my previous post, I limited my comments to a general but firm caution, having researched for my own interest and found a prevalence of misinformation.
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OK, the extra questions are easier to answer.

Fields add in well-defined ways. Further details are required about them to know what the interaction will be, e.g. phase and orientation in space. They can add to create a stronger field, cancel out completely, or most likely result in a different spatial arrangement of a field somewhat stronger than either. But not much stronger; they don't 'multiply' and become huge.

I do not understand 'naked electric current', sorry.

Incident RF energy could have come from all sorts of places but it's most unlikely at the field strengths we would normally consider significant. If someone is pointing the feedhorn of a microwave transmitter through the ceiling, then yes. A cell tower down the road, probably not a big deal.

No, EM radiation cannot 'attract' other radiation. As above, it is a trivial matter to calculate how multiple sources will interact, a much more difficult matter to be able to precisely characterise those sources spatially and temporally.
 
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DPG

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Have you considered moving out for a couple of weeks to see if the problems cease?

I suspect you are never going to be happy in your current property, no matter how much shielding and earthing is done. Especially with the presence of the nearby radio transmitter masts.

And I'm not sure what else the landlord can do in reality - it's not really within his remit to carry out extreme measures to eradicate this issue.
 

pc1966

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It is very important to remember that correlation is not causation.

If you have had disturbing events and see some EMF meter reading high it does not establish that the EMF is any sort of underlying cause. The "safe" levels cited by the UK/EU regulation bodies are precautionary levels. These are far, far below the sort of levels that are normally going to cause any sensation or recognised biological effect and have been set due to the weak correlation between possible EMF sources and medical events just in case some mechanism is found in the future.

There are many other phenomenon that can cause "sick building syndrome" where some (or even many) individuals feel unwell or unhappy in a given location. EMF is among the pretty low probabilities for being a cause of the sort of symptoms you have reported.

So once again, this is not any sort of rejection of what you experienced, but a suggestion that you need to be looking any various other possible explanations from underlying medical issues to a whole range of other site-related triggers due to physical phenomena such as infra-sound, or to more likely ones relating to poor ventialtion and reactions to chemicals or biological factors (insects, fungi, etc) that might be present.
 
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  • #30
Many thanks to those of you who have contributed to my question - this will be my last post for a while; I am pretty exhausted mentally and physically having to deal with this issue.
My aim has been to gather information in order to convince my landlord - a housing association - to rehouse me and/or do necessary repairs, which they are refusing to do. From what I have come to learn about this issue, I understand repairs would involve taking up floor/ceiling areas to have direct access to wires, which may explain their reluctance.
I have contacted my MP, my Councillor, the Housing Ombudsman and Shelter, all of whom are treating my issue seriously. All of these bodies, plus my HA, have never raised questions as to whether this issue actually exists, which is very interesting.
:tonguewink: Mr Nunes and DPG - HUGE THANKS for your input.
BTW those 2 incidents were not the cause of my sensitivity - it had started a few month before.
Also, I had moved out 2 years ago for 4 months because of all the disturbance. This allowed me to sleep well and my body recovered so it was no longer as sensitive to EMF.
It is interesting to note that both incidents of EMF (2 years ago and from April this year) started when more tenants were home more often and using their electricity. (We have 12+ teachers in our 30 flat block). I have lived here for 20 years and have had no other health issues. I have also worked with children/young adults with Special Needs (including extreme behavioural issues and ASD) for 20+ years, so have no issues with my nerves!)
For pc1966; because of the disturbance sometimes affecting my heart, I had a 24 hour Ambulatory ECG that recorded events of palpitations, missed or extra beats, and stronger beats directly linked to EMF disturbance, recorded on the metre. One incident was when I used the self serving tills at a supermarket; there was 10+ grouped together, all using WiFi. The disturbance stopped as soon as I moved away.
I would strongly caution you to NOT seek to minimise real concerns of people who are actually undergoing issues like this. Although there is a wealth of misinformation about EMF and it's effects of the human body, there is also a wealth of research done by medical experts and those from other scientific fields who have drawn direct correlations between health issues and this - please research it yourself before writing posts such as your last one. However well-intentioned you may be, quoting statistics and regurgitating information is not the same as lived experience. One has to always question accepted information especially from 'trusted' bodies. Don't forget, 'trusted' scientists once thought the earth was flat....!
We certainly do not, as yet, fully know the consequences of the growth of technology, especially the use of WIFI, on our planet or our bodies. But we need to always keep an open and questioning mind, and - more importantly - actually take seriously those who raise issues from their experience. It is not just for their own benefit, but for everyone's benefit.
I hope my issue may have been of help to others, to - at least - raise the profile of EMF and it's effects on the physical body - as a subject for serious consideration.

Many thanks for your time.

Regards, Deb
 

DPG

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Can I ask, what repairs have you asked your landlord to carry out, and who has given advice to conclude what is needed?
 
This is why we need TN-S and RCDs on all electrical supplies. I'm with you Deborah even if my ability to help you is limited. Stay strong and keep pushing! Activism goes a long way.
 

w0z

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I can't and won't comment on the sensitivity to em fields other than to say that there could be alternative (cheaper) ways of shielding using foil panels to create a faraday cage, which could be an easier remedy depending on construction. The OP could consider that.

Do any supermarkets connect their POS terminals with wifi? I would have thought they all used ethernet?
 

Lucien Nunes

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It's ambiguous because not everyone cares about the distinction and capitalisation, and many who discuss the significance of EMFs don't have much to do with emfs. You can usually discern the intended meaning:

'The emf from the thermocouple is very stable : Electromotive force.
'The EMF from the phone mast fried my giraffe ' : Electromagnetic field.
 

pc1966

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actually undergoing issues like this. Although there is a wealth of misinformation about EMF and it's effects of the human body, there is also a wealth of research done by medical experts and those from other scientific fields who have drawn direct correlations between health issues and this - please research it yourself before writing posts such as
It would be useful if you could cite some of them as I have not seen any showing this. Don't forget that we have been running an "experiment" over the last 20+ years subjecting over a billion people to significant EMF in the form of mobile phone use and to date very little evidence of ill effects have been demonstrated (excluding morons using one while driving and causing death & injury that way).

How does using a mobile phone effect you?

information especially from 'trusted' bodies. Don't forget, 'trusted' scientists once thought the earth was flat....!
Except they never did.

Both the Romans and Greeks knew the world was round, with Posidonius (135BC to 51BC) estimated the Earth's circumference at 39,000 km (only 1,074km too small).

By the time the "scientific method" was established (often with significant credit given to Francis Bacon (1561 to 1626) they had already seen Christopher Columbus' attempts to reach India going round the world in the opposite way in 1492 and encountering America by surprise (hence the West Indies naming).
 
EMF = electromagnetic field
emf = electromotive force
That is shocking Electrical basic science emf is electromotive force, I was trying to be nice to the poor chap.

maybe it's EMF in conspiracy rubbish I have no idea. Electro magnetic Field making me shake!!!
 
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