EPC applicable to commercial?

[dansk]

As the title, and whats the rate for 4-10kw.

 

[TedM]

EPCs will apply to virtually everything. You will need to prove that it is literally impossible to get one on a building in order to be exempt.

From 3rd March the confirmed 4-10kW rate is 16.8p

 

[njcuk]

Not on unheated barns, outbuildings, warehouses.

 

[TedM]

PV on a farm outbuilding roof will require EPC for the farmhouse.

 

[dansk]

ok - many thanks, this is a old warehouse used as a joinery workshop and some office space - the second is a converted pub used as a showroom - so you think EPC for both?

 

[finchy]

Ive got a 50kWp plus on the boil due to the uncertainty and time lags ...Its a very large workshop for servicing all types of vechicals cars vans lorries the front is left open. Their are also offices within the building ....so what how would I apply this EPC ....Could one assess just the offices , which I hope are D ..?

Also is it confirmed that the EPC assessor has to be independant eg is it pointless for me to do the EPC course ? What classes independant could I set up a seperate EPC company and I still do the EPC ?

 

[dansk]

@TedM - were can i find the actual legislation regarding EPC's and Commercial Buildings? Ive got a red hot lead and i dont want to miss out if poss.

 

[TedM]

There's no legislation as such yet, just DECCs plans in their consultation response. The Standard Conditions that implement this will need to be published within the next 2 weeks.

These are the relevant parts:

http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/...ed-in-tariff-review-phase-i-gov-response-.pdf

31. The energy efficiency requirement will only apply to new solar PV installations, including extensions to existing solar PV installations, with an eligibility date on or after 1 April 2012. To meet the requirement, generators will need to demonstrate as part of their application for FITs that the building to which the solar PV installation is attached or wired to provide electricity is rated at EPC level D or above. To do this, they will need to provide a valid EPC certificate as part of their application for FITs which will then need to be verified as part of the FITs accreditation process.

33. Many respondents suggested possible exemptions from the energy efficiency requirement. Having considered responses carefully, we have decided that generators who can demonstrate that it is not possible to obtain an EPC certificate for the building to which their solar PV installation is attached or wired to provide electricity, will be exempt from the energy efficiency requirement.

34. We expect that the instances in which this exemption will apply will be very limited. This is because it should be possible to obtain an EPC for any building that meets the definition of building set out in the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive (it is important to note that this includes buildings which are not currently required under that Directive to have an EPC when sold, let or built)

35. [...]Additionally, in many cases we expect that solar PV installations which are attached to a building for which it is not possible to obtain an EPC, will nonetheless be wired to provide electricity to a building that is able to obtain an EPC. For example, this might include a solar PV installation attached to a barn that is also wired to provide electricity to a farmhouse. In this example, the requirement would still apply and could be met if an EPC were provided demonstrating that the farmhouse was rated at EPC level D or above.

I'm sure any of the hundreds of DEAs local to you will be happy to talk you through the options.

 

[Markc]

There will always be buildings that raises questions on EPC.

Example one for me is an onion store agricultural building. Two massive extractor fans (I mean the size of a transit van) full through pull ventilations and gas heating to keep onions dry. Zero insulation and building only used for a few weeks a year. If it needs a D there's no hope at all.

 

[dansk]

Maybe you could prove its exempt, happy days

 

[Gavin A]

eta - sorry, as Ted points out below, this post is wrong.

These are the buildings that EPC's shouldn't apply to

3. Member States may decide not to set or apply the requirements referred to in paragraph 1 for the following categories of
buildings:
— buildings and monuments officially protected as part of a designated environment or because of their special architectural or historic merit, where compliance with the requirements would unacceptably alter their character or appearance,
— buildings used as places of worship and for religious activities,
— temporary buildings with a planned time of use of two years or less, industrial sites, workshops and non-residential agricultural buildings with low energy demand and nonresidential agricultural buildings which are in use by a sector covered by a national sectoral agreement on energy performance,
— residential buildings which are intended to be used less than four months of the year,
— stand-alone build

[source]

I actually read that as saying that it wouldn't apply to listed buildings of any description, and an argument could also be made for national parks, conservation areas etc where the energy efficiency requirements needed to meet band D wouldn't be permitted.

Largely unheated warehouses, barns etc should be covered by this unless, as Ted says, they're on the same meter as a house or other building to which an EPC ought to apply. If the house and barn were on separate meters though, as is often the case, then I can't see why it would apply.

eta - this is from the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive referenced in Ted's quote from the consultation document.

 

[Gavin A]

There will always be buildings that raises questions on EPC.

Example one for me is an onion store agricultural building. Two massive extractor fans (I mean the size of a transit van) full through pull ventilations and gas heating to keep onions dry. Zero insulation and building only used for a few weeks a year. If it needs a D there's no hope at all.

it shouldn't apply

 

[TedM]

I'm raising the question with DECC on how you would prove that a building cannot have an EPC. My suggestion would be a letter from at least 2 DEAs saying that the building was of such construction that they couldn't rate it.

Gavin, I think DECC have already gone out of their way to state that buildings that are normally excepted from EPCs will be included for this purpose. That's the way I read the intent of para 34 that states that the EPBD definition of 'building' would mean that an EPC was required. The EU legislation just means that one is not 'required' for normal EPC use; i.e. sale and rent.

Under the EPBD ‘building’ means a roofed construction having walls, for which energy is used to condition the indoor climate.

This was one of the areas where I raised queries with DECC under the consultation.

 

[Gavin A]

I'm raising the question with DECC on how you would prove that a building cannot have an EPC. My suggestion would be a letter from at least 2 DEAs saying that the building was of such construction that they couldn't rate it.

Gavin, I think DECC have already gone out of their way to state that buildings that are normally excepted from EPCs will be included for this purpose. That's the way I read the intent of para 34 that states that the EPBD definition of 'building' would mean that an EPC was required. The EU legislation just means that one is not 'required' for normal EPC use; i.e. sale and rent.

Under the EPBD ‘building’ means a roofed construction having walls, for which energy is used to condition the indoor climate.

This was one of the areas where I raised queries with DECC under the consultation.

oh bugger, I think you're right.

I thought the exclusions listed sounded pretty sensible, that puts a fairly different spin on things.

Still, it would have excluded the market we're doing in Grimsby that has no heating at all, as well as unheated barns etc.

 

[SRE]

Ted are you saying that we've to wait another 2 weeks to see how the EPC chaos will be administered? So that will onlyleave a month to get those properties through that haven't got a chance of achieving the D rating.

 

[Markc]

Just so I can get this in my head......

Are we saying the proposal is, buildings that normally would be excluded from having any need for a EPC under the standard terminology will need one of D or higher solely for the installation of PV?

What if the use of the building being fitted with PV has no measures of energy use?

Example. Open barn building, no walls just roof for storage of straw. No electrical use to that building at all, not even a light. The array and inverter fitted to that building. The generated energy going to a neighbouring detached grain dryer building that has the incoming supply as well as feeding further neighbouring detached grain stores, mill and workshop. No residential use at all.

What building needs the D? The grain dryer? If so that building is metal sheet building with asbestos cement roof and zero insulation.

This is going to be a nightmare.

 

[SolarCity]

Absolutely. And when do you go through the process of finding out? Before you quote? Or after you win the tender?

From April 1st, the tendering process is going to be an utter nightmare, riddled with wasted time.

 

[mdovey]

Are we saying the proposal is, buildings that normally would be excluded from having any need for a EPC under the standard terminology will need one of D or higher solely for the installation of PV?

As TedM has pointed out the EPC of rate D applies to "for any building that meets the definition of building set out in the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive (it is important to note that this includes buildings which are not currently required under that Directive to have an EPC when sold, let or built)"

The definition of building in the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive is "a roofed construction having walls, for which energy is used to condition the indoor climate; a building may refer to the building as a whole or parts thereof that have been designed or altered to be used separately;"

So basically anything which has a roof and walls and which uses energy to control the internal "climate" needs to have an EPC rating of D for the purposes of FITs.

 

[TedM]

Anyone planning to install PV after April 1st should get an EPC asap.

I'm waiting for a reply from DECC on how the EPC exemptions are to be handled. I imagine they will tell OFGEM what the process is which will then drip down to the electricity companies who will have to administer this. My suggestion to them is that a couple of letters from two separate DEAs, saying that the building cannot be covered by an EPC, should be enough.

How the situation, where electricity from one PV array may be shared across multiple buildings, is handled is not yet clear.

For 'normal' dwellings the installation of 3kW, or more, of PV alone is generally enough to take a band 'E' house into band 'D'. But that's not guaranteed as EPC scores depend on so many different variables. But a DEA should be able to model both the house 'as is' and the same house with xkW PV and tell you what the bands will be quite easily.