Estimation and pricing techniques

[lazy username]

Hello everyone,

Just wondering if anyone would like to share a few tips on the techniques they use when working out quotes on domestic jobs

* working out lenghts of of cable required

* methods of calculating labor

* etc etc.

I tend to use the technique
Number of points multiplied by the estimated time to do each point, multiplied by hourly rate, plus overheads and VAT, with a bit on top to cover waste & changes etc.

If anyone has ideas on how to improve on this please share Im always open to advice

Thanks

 

[telectrix]

on a full rewire, i estimate at £40-£45 per point , £70-£90 shower/cooker points. the point cost is obviously higher on smaller jobs. i then cost materials and use your method. if the 2 are close, then i quote the higher figure. if they are way off, then i scratch me 'ed.

 

[Jay Sparks]

Hi,

For me personally, it depends on what the job is, example: if I was only replacing white accessories with say chrome ones and it would take me 5 hours, I would charge my hourly rate but if I was gonna replace a cu and that was gonna take roughly 5 hrs I would charge more as this would be more thinking involved. So as I said, for me it depends on what the job is.

Cheers

Jay

 

[lazy username]

Cheers for the replies lads,

Recently got offered a job thats quite large, house roughly 1800square meters (yes square meters) , was given the plans and told to fire away and design it myself.

Planning to do all my volt drops, circuit designs and CSA's then calculate the gear needed after.
Was going to plan out all my cable routes then use a scale ruler to give an estimate on cable lenghts with extra added for changes or any problems down the line.

This method may prove very time consuming has anybody got any ideas to speed things up or should I just stick with the tried and tested method.

Would others put any extra day or 2 on their price to cover time taken on design and estimation?? I think its only fair.

Was thinking of drawing up my plans on AutoCad perhaps, anyone know if theres any electrical software out there that could be used in conjunction with this??

Im going to use dialux to help with the lighting design its great software to get the lux levels spot on.

Thanks again lads for the replies

 

[Dave 85]

Remember, the idea of running a business is to make a profit not just a salary.
Personally I always try to make significantly more than my day rate on priced work. After all, the client doesn't have to accept, and I rarely get beaten on a price anyway. For re-wire I go for around £50 per socket/downlighter/spur maybe £100 for a pendant and switch (I live near some quite a wealthy areas and have heard of people charging £75 per point.) If the job looks a nightmare, people living there, not many sockets per room, stupidly hard walls etc I'd charge more. Whatever you do, give them an itemised quote on a big job, not just 5k labour 5k materials (as my old boss used to) it saves any problems when it comes to charging for extras/variations etc

 

[Voltimax]

If you're pricing from plans and you plan on working out your cable routes, you're gonna struggle and yes, you will spend way too much time pricing it, after all how do you know where you can run your cables? Have a look at easyprice pros website videos. Not suggesting you buy their software, but they show you how the program works out cable lengths. Basically it takes the perimeter of each room and then an allowance for you cable drops and that is roughly what you'll allow. For example 3 x double sockets in a room that's 5mtrs x 5mtrs. Perimeter = 20mtrs, say cable drop per point of 4.4mtrs, 3 points will be 13.2mtrs add this to your perimeter of 20mtrs = 33.2mtrs.
Rule of thumb that I was told by an estimator once was 8-10mtrs of cable on ring circuits and 6-8mtr on lights. The above example works out at just over 11mtrs per socket. This is a real quick and dirty method.

 

[Stoufer2000]

Don't know if it will be any help to anyone but I use an excel worksheet that I have adapted over the years. You populate the estimate page by entering material costs and labour times per item, hourly rates and markups for labour and materials. You can add travel time and mileage and you can change input and output VAT for VAT or non VAT companies.

On other pages it enters info automatically for a quotation page to print on headed paper, file cover sheet, job sheet, cancellation sheet, risk assessment, bill of quants, strange invoice that never got properly finished as I use sage, a job costing and summary page and probably a few other things I've forgotten as well that need developing.

It's not perfect and can obviously not vouch that there are no errors in there anywhere but most of it is sorted and it works well for me. It might suit somebody starting out and it can be adapted chopped and changed at will to suit....
might save someone from reinventing the wheel.
Not sure if you can upload docs on here or not but if you would like a copy send me an email [email protected]

 

[imago]

Remember, the idea of running a business is to make a profit not just a salary.
Personally I always try to make significantly more than my day rate on priced work. After all, the client doesn't have to accept, and I rarely get beaten on a price anyway.

Quite right, I totally agree.

Whatever you do, give them an itemised quote on a big job, not just 5k labour 5k materials (as my old boss used to) it saves any problems when it comes to charging for extras/variations etc

I don't do it that way, using your example my quote would itemise the work and the only figure shown would be 10k. I never ever break down the job price. Disputes are covered with a good work description, what it takes me to do it in terms of labour and materials is irrelavent to the customer. It also avoids the chance of me feeding a quote for someone else to pick over.

 

[Voltimax]

Don't know if it will be any help to anyone but I use an excel worksheet that I have adapted over the years.

Well I would like to see it. I have some sheets that sound similar in nature and I'm always looking to improve them.

 

[Amp David]

For me the most difficult task is calculating the amount of cable needed.

 

[Stoufer2000]

Drop me a mail at the address above and I will whizz it over. Same here re changes and improvements, I keep tinkering with this one from time to time. Perhaps we could do swapsies and I might be able to pinch some ideas from yours!

 

[Dave-Titan]

i have a set up i got off a mate that sounds like the same type of excel set up you have.
if i drop you an email can we do swapsies lol

also im sure theres a book out there aimed at sparks for pricing jobs as my old boss had one. sorry not a clue on name.

 

[Voltimax]

I would think that's Spons or Luckins.

 

[Heisenberg]

Have a look at this site I stumbled across recently...

Your Guide to Building Costs, Labour Prices and Tradesmen's Day Rates

Makes for some interesting reading :greedy:

 

[D80]

If you're pricing from plans and you plan on working out your cable routes, you're gonna struggle and yes, you will spend way too much time pricing it, after all how do you know where you can run your cables? Have a look at easyprice pros website videos. Not suggesting you buy their software, but they show you how the program works out cable lengths. Basically it takes the perimeter of each room and then an allowance for you cable drops and that is roughly what you'll allow. For example 3 x double sockets in a room that's 5mtrs x 5mtrs. Perimeter = 20mtrs, say cable drop per point of 4.4mtrs, 3 points will be 13.2mtrs add this to your perimeter of 20mtrs = 33.2mtrs.
Rule of thumb that I was told by an estimator once was 8-10mtrs of cable on ring circuits and 6-8mtr on lights. The above example works out at just over 11mtrs per socket. This is a real quick and dirty method.

Had a look at easyprice, immediately put off by "Length of Ring Main for Lights"

 

[Voltimax]

Had a look at easyprice, immediately put off by "Length of Ring Main for Lights"

Well like I said, I'm not saying anyone should buy that program, but what I'm saying is estimators have been using that method long before easyprice pro was in existence.