EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[telectrix]

if you want impartial advice. i voted NO in 1974 or 1975 when the first decision was made. i still vote NO now. 40 years of being anti-EU makes that as impartial as you can get. :stuart:

 

[Octopus]

They can't all be lying Murdoch.

Remain says there will be job losses, Brexiters say there will not.
Remain says the economy will suffer, Brexiters say it will not
Remain says there will be an impact on security, Brexiters say there will be no impact
Brexiters say we send £350m a week to the EU, remain say we do not

And on and on.

On most points they are arguing polar opposites.



That's right MW. You have to find out as much as you can yourself and make a judgement on that.

Enjoy.

Interesting point the £350m per week.... you would have thought this would be "easy" to nail down - but neither side have so this is stupid.

What is not in dispute is the fact that we send X - get back Y and there is a massive "contribution" to the fund the net "takers" in the EU


As for the polar opposites - I quite agree - its because neither actually know.

Out of the people I have spoken to they are ALL out except 1 millionaire and 1 civil servant.

 

[sparksburnout]

As I stated, the decisions WOULD be ours to take and make.

As for a Cameron replacement - I can see the Conservatives with a "jeremy corbyn" at the wheel.

The UK doesn't have ANY true leaders at the moment - they are pretty much ALL career politicians without back bones.

Well bl***dy said Murdoch! As I have said before the lot of them are a shower of ---- with a very few exceptions (Margaret Hodge for example). They have all run this country down over decades now. When we do leave I can't wait to see both Cameron and Corbyn resign, and good riddance to the pair of them. On the other topic, how can people say we could not control our own borders?? We are doing it now, non-EU immigration has been reduced massively over the last couple of years, we can't even get curry chef's these days!

 

[Octopus]

Well bl***dy said Murdoch! As I have said before the lot of them are a shower of ---- with a very few exceptions (Margaret Hodge for example). They have all run this country down over decades now. When we do leave I can't wait to see both Cameron and Corbyn resign, and good riddance to the pair of them. On the other topic, how can people say we could not control our own borders?? We are doing it now, non-EU immigration has been reduced massively over the last couple of years, we can't even get curry chef's these days!

Not sure I agree with that.

Immigration from the EU or the rest of the World allows UK plc to "avoid" the costs of training staff..........

 

[sparksburnout]

Not sure I agree with that.

Immigration from the EU or the rest of the World allows UK plc to "avoid" the costs of training staff..........

I don't agree with it either. I think one big point that is never discussed in all this is the fact that we should NOT be using the resources of ANY other countries to bolster up our country. We should be helping them to better their own countries so they do not want to come in the first place (we do financially anyway). An awful lot of these "refugees" are just young men who have looked on their phones at the UK and thought "right sod this place I want to go and live in the UK its great there". It is morally wrong that we are talking of taking doctors, nurses and so on from other countries, they are needed there to help those countries get better. We should have been training our own people, but as usual successive governments have buggered it up and now we are in a mess. I was just making the point that we CAN control our borders, but only if we are OUT regarding EU immigrants.

 

[Wonderwall]

I'm stay in. Though I have positives and negatives ( good eh!!) on both sides of argument.
I think if we we are out , the immigration could be worse. Britain just don't turn boats away from their border. Just now our border is in France, they would gladly send boats our way .
but I know nothing ..:confused5:

 

[Darkwood]

I'm stay in. Though I have positives and negatives ( good eh!!) on both sides of argument.
I think if we we are out , the immigration could be worse. Britain just don't turn boats away from their border. Just now our border is in France, they would gladly send boats our way .
but I know nothing ..:confused5:

Nothing wrong with been flumaxed by it all but read my post 488 about the French border deal

 

[Wonderwall]

Nothing wrong with been flumaxed by it all but read my post 488 about the French border deal

You may be right, but history tells us, not to trust the French with their promises does it not?
If getting out is solely on immigration I think we should stay.
Thats my point. The financial and political side is over my , and most others I think , head

 

[silverfox1]

Wonderwall strip away all the economic, immigration debate and get down to the crux of the matter, as I have said in another post its basically do you want to live in a democratic society or under a dictatorship, it really is that simple, your choice.

 

[silverfox1]

I did mean to include this quote in my last post.

“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”



Gorbachev.

 

[Midwest]

Wonderwall strip away all the economic, immigration debate and get down to the crux of the matter, as I have said in another post its basically do you want to live in a democratic society or under a dictatorship, it really is that simple, your choice.

If you want to get rid of the Tories, then vote accordingly in 2020 :biggrin5:

 

[UNG]

The thing is Pete, on this VERY subject, we all know he's lying as one of the key aims of the EU is freedom of movement and on this basis the Brussels "mob" will not change this - so such a pledge or promised is an unachievable goal.

For me the entire EU strategy now is is about not allowing the Euro to fail - at ANY cost. This means that until the Germans and French agree to treaty change so that ALL the Euro zone countries have political AND fiscal union the mess will only get worse.

Fiscal union only benefits the Germans that is why they are so feared of it failing other countries in the Euro didn't get a choice on the Euro and didn't want it and the exchange price rises it brought at it's introduction. With regard to Euro bailouts it seems to be forgotten that the UK bailed out Ireland when some Euro zone countries were under financial pressure

If you want to get rid of the Tories, then vote accordingly in 2020 :biggrin5:

And replace them with what UKIP, SNP, The Green party or how about The monster raving loony's

 

[Darkwood]

You may be right, but history tells us, not to trust the French with their promises does it not?
If getting out is solely on immigration I think we should stay.
Thats my point. The financial and political side is over my , and most others I think , head

Trust is a different thing but on this occasion lets say they did play silly buggers and we had our checkpoint moved back to Dover then it weakens the border for both sides, the attraction for migrants to come that route returns, the influx and problems that were will be again and its France that get hit the hardest as they still have to get on a train or truck illegally so nothing really changes from what we see now except the numbers trying to come will increase, you think the limited numbers even with their trouble making are bad now then look back to what it used to be before this arrangement was set up. Anyone using the French border deal as a scare story is simply saying that they cannot convince you with any positive reason to remain in the EU so they will try scare you with stories of border changes or Economical breakdown (exactly the same thing said if we didn't join the EU by the same people and PLC's - we kind of dodged a bullet there by staying out of it)...

All Im saying here is if you are undecided then research it yourself as the suveys done by alledged unbiased groups (who receive EU monies) is all biased to favour a remain - the research the LSE for instance isn't untrue but it is selectively picked out to move to a position to favour remain, they get a very healthy and generous input of money from the EU, have frequest guest events of high standind EU politicians and have alot of EU propaganda within their teaching structure and this is the institute that provides the so called data for the remains arguments.... in 2002 the LSE chairman Peter Sutherland produced what is now known as the Sutherland report that urged us to rethink about joining the Euro and put a positive case to do so, had we taken the advice the country would have been hit badly and recovery from the recent crash wouldn't have been as easy, this is one of those rare occasions that I believe Gorden Brown got it right in warning us not to join the Euro and again the economical warning produced by the LSE if we didn't join, never came to fruition and in fact the opposite happened as the pound strengthened and investment increased in the UK.

 

[sparksburnout]

You may be right, but history tells us, not to trust the French with their promises does it not?
If getting out is solely on immigration I think we should stay.
Thats my point. The financial and political side is over my , and most others I think , head

Thats a new one! Stopping in to reduce immigration????

 

[sparksburnout]

I do not think that you have to be a financial wizzkid or be as politically astute as DW and others on here, to be able to do the simple maths. This country is paying an outrageous amount of money in, basically to bolster up the economies and infrastructures of most of the rest of Europe. We don't even get much of a say in how we spend the very much smaller refund. Instead of doing this we could be using that money to improve our country. I do not see why we should shell out to help countries like Portugal, for instance, who have basically sat on their a***s for years.

 

[Midwest]

And replace them with what UKIP, SNP, The Green party or how about The monster raving loony's

I was p taking.

 

[Wonderwall]

Thats a new one! Stopping in to reduce immigration????

It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.

 

[telectrix]

It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.

so, over the last 5 years, 1 million UK jobs have been taken by immigrants who mainly send a fair proportion of their earnings back to their home countries, thus damaging the UK economy.. how many British born are on the dole? what about the other millions of immigrants who have not got work?

 

[sparksburnout]

It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.

I nearly replied along the lines of what country are you living in, but iv'e just noticed. What a load of bl**dy rubbish do you get the daily mail up there??

 

[telectrix]

if only we could bring churchill back to life.........