NICEIC Certification Scheme Failed Niceic

[LittleHelper]

Hi all,
I had an assessment yesterday and failed . The reason I failed was there were ring circuits that had mcb's and not rcbos. the apartments I showed were ones that the company I work for provided the apartments and are ones in which I installed and tested but were digned 2- 3 years ago and work started the middle of last year based on regs of the time. Now I understand that the rcbo situation means it has not confirmed to the regs but is that somthing that should be a straight fail or do I have a leg to stand on to challenge the decision?. I feel he could ade ecommendation to change to rcbos and send proof. I guess I have to suck it up lol

cheers

LH

 

[tony mc]

I can not see how you would think no RCD protection would of been OK on apartments even prior to AMD 3 which came into effect on 1/7/15 with a exception of the CU issue!

What reason did you give the inspector and why do they have to be RCBO,s

 

[DPG]

As above ^^^^ what was the reason for no RCD protection? Daz

 

[telectrix]

sorry, but 2-3 years ago, all sockets generally should have been RCD protected. also, all cables buried in walls should have been, unless alternative mechanical protection was in place. your employers are also at fault, as i presume the design was up to them.

 

[Octopus]

Have you been reading the 16th edition?

 

[davesparks]

I'm more surprised that the niceic actually bothered to fail someone, did your cheque bounce or something?

 

[spaldingsparks]

Hi all,
I had an assessment yesterday and failed . The reason I failed was there were ring circuits that had mcb's and not rcbos. the apartments I showed were ones that the company I work for provided the apartments and are ones in which I installed and tested but were digned 2- 3 years ago and work started the middle of last year based on regs of the time. Now I understand that the rcbo situation means it has not confirmed to the regs but is that somthing that should be a straight fail or do I have a leg to stand on to challenge the decision?. I feel he could ade ecommendation to change to rcbos and send proof. I guess I have to suck it up lol

cheers

LH

Sorry to hear you failed even more sorry that you think MCBs should be could be used on Ring mains without RCD or RCBOs and then took an inspector round to show your ability to install a safe electrical system what if there had been a fault situation Fire or electrocution! you should sort out the problem free of charge then you will become an electrician with a conscience and experience in making and rectifying your mistakes and worthy of Being a registered professional Sparky

 

[davesparks]

sorry that you think MCBs should be could be used on Ring mains without RCD or RCBOs and then took an inspector round to show

What makes you think a ring final circuit cannot be protected with an mcb at the DB?
RCD protection can be provided at each point via an RCD socket outlet, there is not necessarily a requirement for the whole circuit to have RCD protection.

 

[LittleHelper]

I know that rings should have rcd protection but one of the kitchen rings has no socket outlets only appliances fridge freezer etc but rcd was omitted with risk assessment due to known nuisance tripping issues with fridge by the designers of the install. To be fair I don't think I'm incompetent but need to brush up on some things. As I know of someone who was excepted when a live cable was seen not terminated lol. I guess it's who you get on the day and will brush up on knowledge.

Cheers

LH

 

[davesparks]

I know that rings should have rcd protection but one of the kitchen rings has no socket outlets only appliances fridge freezer etc but rcd was omitted with risk assessment due to known nuisance tripping issues with fridge by the designers of the install. To be fair I don't think I'm incompetent but need to brush up on some things. As I know of someone who was excepted when a live cable was seen not terminated lol. I guess it's who you get on the day and will brush up on knowledge.

Cheers

LH

If it has no socket outlets then why does it need RCD protection? Did you not reference the specific regulations which allow the omission of RCD protection in this circuit when discussing it? Or did you just blindly believe what the assessor said without question?

 

[LittleHelper]

To be fair I didn't quote relevant paragraph but did mention to him the reason why one was not present. And think nerves got the better of me in the moment. As he had earlier pulled me on a clerical error of 0.4 max disconnect for 40A but I let him know it was a clerical error and told him 5s. But could tell from the off he was a stiff one. But got unnerved
I thought there were 3 options. A pass B nonconform C fail. I don't feel I did enough to fail in the scheme of things as in any major danger. And what was there was easily rectifiable. I have heard a lot worse. But fair enough if I don't stand my ground just make sure next time everything is perfect.

Cheers

LH

 

[rolyberkin]

Just make sure next time everything is perfect?.......Stop digging that hole!

 

[7029 dave]

IMO, apartment, domestic dwelling, RCD protection end of.

 

[Octopus]

I think the op needs to brush up on where and why rcd's are required...... And it's not just about sockets.

 

[LittleHelper]

I think the op needs to brush up on where and why rcd's are required...... And it's not just about sockets.

Outside install, "Any circuit that passess through bathroom areas, any cables run in fabric of wall etc... I know im not perfect but believe me there are 10 times worse walking out there fully ticketed up and an absolute danger to the public.
Thanks for comments advice and help all taken onboard and 2nd time around there is no way I will fail. Will that mean im professional and fully competent in all aspects of electrical work. I dont think so as that is the reason we have regs to refer to so will verse myself better in relation to the job.

Many thanks

LH

 

[Octopus]

So who signed off these apartments ? Seems they got it wrong too.

 

[LittleHelper]

So who signed off these apartments ? Seems they got it wrong too.

As stated before by another poster ommisions are allowed with regards to sockets if socket serves a particular item but is labeled but this circuit was a ring in the kitchen that passed through a grid switch that appliances were feed off with no sockets as part of the ring. I found out today the designs were drawn up 5 years ago but designs released a few months ago for a few more apartments rcbos are highlighted on every circuit!

Cheers

LH

 

[Hellmooth]

Bit poor imo, they let cowboys in all the time! Sounds like you know what you're doing, just a slip up under pressure, and not really your fault, no one in any harm, wouldn't worry about the comments on here a lot of these people ARE perfect.

 

[Marvo]

Yeah, sounds like you used the wrong installation for your assessment and sounds like you need to brush up on the regs a bit so you can be more confident as a sparky in general, not just during assessment.

At least it sounds like you're not dwelling on it too much. Forget the others who you've seen are not competant and just concentrate on bettering yourself. Get your head into the latest edition of the regs and do some reading and hang around the forum and check out some of the older threads. I'm sure it won't take too long before your knowledge gets better and your confidence will follow.

 

[Diddy]

Op sorry for your situation. As others have pointed you either have your knowledge and arguments ready if you feel the assessor is incorrect or do it by the book or better. Surely you could have taken them on a job that you did in the last few months that did not contain anything other than fully upto date compliant install methods.
Again it doesn't help you but this is also the 1st time I have heard of a scam outright "fail" a potential customer. What happens there ? Does it mean a retest ? Do you just loose all your cash or do you get a partial refund......TBH im happily stunned (But sad for you op)