Discuss Feeding switches in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

B

bgec

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Hi guys, does anyone know of a regulation that provents you from feeding switches in a domestic lighting circuit. I can't think of one but i need a second opinion as someone questioned it and made me doubt myself.
Not that I am a sesItive guy or anything, thanks.
 
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ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
Hi guys, does anyone know of a regulation that provents you from feeding switches in a domestic lighting circuit. I can't think of one but i need a second opinion as someone questioned it and made me doubt myself.
Not that I am a sesItive guy or anything, thanks.
Depends what you want to feed them?

Bananas
Peanuts
Crisps
Stickey Buns

No, seriously what do you mean by feeding switches as if you don't take a supply to them you can't switch a light on!
 
B

bgec

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Depends what you want to feed them?

Bananas
Peanuts
Crisps
Stickey Buns

No, seriously what do you mean by feeding switches as if you don't take a supply to them you can't switch a light on!
sorry, feed in and out of the switch insted of the fitting (3 plate ) due to the nature of the fittings i can only have one t&e out of the celling and i dont want to use JBs as access to them would be a nightmear
 
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Spudnik

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  • #4
Perfectly acceptable to run circuit to switches.

Fill ya boots.
 
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Lew1s

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  • #5
Yeah, i was taught loop in and out of switches before i even learnt 3 plate lol. It's perfectly fine.
 
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sparkz

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  • #6
I was told by another electrician that feeding switching is wrong because you have a floating connection (neutral) at the switch. :confused:
 
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jaldred

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  • #7
Not sure what a "floating connection" is???
Must mean the Neutrals in a connector block behind the switch?
It's common practice to wire in this manner - particularly new build and the only advice i've ever been given with regard to this is to stick to either feeds at switches or at fittings in any one property, easier when it comes to 2nd fixing, not having to remember where your feeds are and i guess future fault finding?
 
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beaver74

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  • #8
when i worked for a nic company we were knock back for floating conectors on a switch so we started using a glue gun to give a fixed conection for the neutral
 
It amazes me where some of these old wives tales are conceived from.If you had to wire to a track light (two -plate i.e feed to switch) would be the only sensible way to wire it.It would be impractible to bring three cables to it.Also if you have to have a neon at a switch,what would you have to take there " yes " a neutral.
 
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heathelect

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
3 plating at switch position is not a problem, weve been doing it for years, especially when youve got fancy fittings , spotlights, chandeliers, tracklights outside lights, etc,etc, in a bathroom i always 3 plate at the fan isolator, leaving only 1 cable to lights, fan and switch, its so easy,no connectors for neutrals needed then, but you need to install 25mm deep boxes. regards dave :):):)
 
R

Ross Trician

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  • #11
Morning all,
just to say I always take the L/N/E to the switch and then the S_L/N/E to the fitting. I do this now as it is easier to run the S_L/N/E to each light that dont have facitilies to terminate as you can with a ceiling rose plate. it saves using junction boxes or connector blocks. Keeps it tidyier and easier to work on in the future if addition lighting is needed in the room.

I used to take the feed cables to the ceiling rose first but then became a hassle when they decide to have spots and wall lights.

cheers, ross
 
U

UK_Night_Owl

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  • #12
If it's any help, at college the other week, we were told that it is an accepted way to run the supply feed to the light switch and to used a connector block for the neutral. The instructor did however go on to say that, technically though, according to the regulations, any connection should be made to a fixed terminal and not left lose. - Like beaver74 said, a little attention with a glue gun could render a once lose / floating terminal into a fixed one.

Hope this helps

David
 
H

hamlettphil

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
i wired new houses and flats for nearly 7 years and thats how i was tought, to switch feed. personally it makes it easier to fit the jazzy light fittings the new homeowner buys and wants you to fit.
 
S

sparkyork

alot of valid points here and to sum it up there is definately nothing wrong with looping at the light switch etc. whether you glue a connector block in the back box is upto you as individuals, end of the day if you dress the cables properly within the box your not gonna have any problems...think that is more important than glueing a connector in.

anyone fancy inventing a standard switch plate with neutral connection on it (for loop purposes? or why not have dp switch like the grid switches!!)
 
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heathelect

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  • #15
alot of valid points here and to sum it up there is definately nothing wrong with looping at the light switch etc. whether you glue a connector block in the back box is upto you as individuals, end of the day if you dress the cables properly within the box your not gonna have any problems...think that is more important than glueing a connector in.

anyone fancy inventing a standard switch plate with neutral connection on it (for loop purposes? or why not have dp switch like the grid switches!!)

D.P. switch is great idea ive used them a few times, but had trouble finding a D.P. 2way switch !!!!!!!!, dave:D:D:D:D
 
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sparkyork

D.P. switch is great idea ive used them a few times, but had trouble finding a D.P. 2way switch !!!!!!!!, dave:D:D:D:D

yeah lol, gotta be possible tho hasnt it, just a 2way grid with a neutral loop conection on it as well! oh dear im thnking to much now!
 
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heathelect

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
yeah lol, gotta be possible tho hasnt it, just a 2way grid with a neutral loop conection on it as well! oh dear im thnking to much now!

Me thinks alcohol is the cause, better get off to bed and recover, work to do in the morn
 
S

sparkyork

im having trouble sourcing some double pole earth clamps and some 3 phase downlights
 
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heathelect

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
im having trouble sourcing some double pole earth clamps and some 3 phase downlights

I got some of them in me shed, i'll send you some , ive also got some reciprocating snigget toggles, these will be good to help you fix the 3 phase downlights.
 
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piggyitm

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
ABC1 the point here is,to quote BS 7671 134.1.4 and 526 electrical connections.If you were to crimp or solder your connection you could bury them.If you made a connection behind or in an enclosure ( Just like a switchbox and plate) then 526.5 would apply.Be wary of the N.I.C. as they tend to have their own set of definitions or interpretations of BS 7671.Their inspectors use their own guidelines and set their own pass criteria.
Be thankfull they're not the elite of the electrical world that they once were.Competition has forced them to to take a less authoritarian approach,and thus,slacken their credibility.

In all fairness,one of my customers,who owns 12 rental properties,won't beleive that any legislation imposed will effect the seller.The seller can lie about dates and repairs.Only the credibility of the buyers PIR would be under scrutiny and the sellers information is hard to guarantee pre HIP.He seems confident...lets see what will or won't happen!!
 
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salisbury spark

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  • #22
I wired my board for my PART P exam through the switch and connected up all the neutrals there - Had to take it all apart because it was bad practice and should have loop in and out of ceiling roses so there was no floating wires as they all went into a fixed connection. Tutor couldnt believe my tutor at another college had told me this was ok!!!! and said he wouldnt employ him if he taught poor practice.... Have seen neutrals connected with choc bloc this week on a new build and was suprised to see it? -Tutor also told me its harder to test and inspect aswell as fault find which is true allthough did it myself recently to save running another wire to lights (poor design on my behalf)
 
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S

sparkyork

I wired my board for my PART P exam through the switch and connected up all the neutrals there - Had to take it all apart because it was bad practice and should have loop in and out of ceiling roses so there was no floating wires as they all went into a fixed connection. Tutor couldnt believe my tutor at another college had told me this was ok!!!! and said he wouldnt employ him if he taught poor practice.... Have seen neutrals connected with choc bloc this week on a new build and was suprised to see it? -Tutor also told me its harder to test and inspect aswell as fault find which is true allthough did it myself recently to save running another wire to lights (poor design on my behalf)

what a load of -------s, **** all wrong with neatrals in the switch box, makes it EASIER for fault finding cos your not up and down step ladders all the time splitting your feeds out. if you connect your neatrals in good manner not leaving bare conductor showing and dress it in properly then it will sit there for years and not cause any problems, these dickheads really get on my tits that say you cant do this cant do that. uck em i say
 
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heathelect

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  • #24
what a load of -------s, **** all wrong with neatrals in the switch box, makes it EASIER for fault finding cos your not up and down step ladders all the time splitting your feeds out. if you connect your neatrals in good manner not leaving bare conductor showing and dress it in properly then it will sit there for years and not cause any problems, these dickheads really get on my tits that say you cant do this cant do that. uck em i say
Sparkyork, i agree with you, what rubbish do they teach at colleges, nowt wrong with neutrals behind a switch when terminated correctly, easier for testing and fault finding and better than a j.b. above ceiling when fitting fancy lights. dave :):)
 
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salisbury spark

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  • #25
Can see what u say about testing at switch is easier than at the rose!! - Can see what tutor means having all wires going to a fixed point. Gonna do whats easiest on the job in future. REF- tutors had 5 different ones this year all telling us we were doing something wrong we had been taught by another - does get frustrating to learn one way then forget it to learn it the next tutors 'right way'.....
 

jeremy

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Mentor
Arms
Just done a rewire. Some lights had neutrals at the rose some at the switch depending on where they were. With a floating connection what can go wrong? Please can someone tell me as I can't think of anything. I'm not saying that I'm right I just can't see it. If the problem was vibration potentially loosening a screw connection surely it would be better to have a floating conn to lessen the effects of the vibration on the screw
 
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aaronstuart

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  • #27
I can't see any problems with floating neutrals in back of switch if terminated correctly......done it myself when installing spots.
Seem to me that most new light fittings don't allow for enough room for terminating the loop in/out method.:)
 
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montybaber

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  • #28
we were always taught to connect neutrals at switch on my 2360 (was a while ago lol)
 

jeremy

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Mentor
Arms
Looks like this is a personal preference or as the situation demands scenario. Perhaps we should be a bit more wary of just accepting "you can't do that , you have to do this" and understanding the reasons why?
 
M

montybaber

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
Looks like this is a personal preference or as the situation demands scenario. Perhaps we should be a bit more wary of just accepting "you can't do that , you have to do this" and understanding the reasons why?
amen:)
 

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