Few easy ones, domestic dwellings, smoke alarms, kitchens.

[MrTrance]

So just to clear a few things up, I work with 10 sparks, all have different answers to these questions.

1. When upgrading a fuse board is it mandatory to upgrade the gas/water bonding to 10mm

2. When upgrading a fuse board is it mandatory to install smoke alarms?

3. When rewiring / new build install, am I right in saying you need a smoke on each floor and a heat in the kitchen (all interlinked).

4. Kitchens, Do I need a fuse spur for washer, dryer, fridge, extractor etc (This one got them arguing).

5. Kitchens, whats the most popular / easy way (new dwellings) wiring cookers / hobs (45A switch behind oven housing? With a socket on for gas in future).

6. Are you allowed sockets / cooker switches in kitchen cupboards



:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Leesparkykent]

So just to clear a few things up, I work with 10 sparks, all have different answers to these questions.

1. When upgrading a fuse board is it mandatory to upgrade the gas/water bonding to 10mm
no
2. When upgrading a fuse board is it mandatory to install smoke alarms?
no
3. When rewiring / new build install, am I right in saying you need a smoke on each floor and a heat in the kitchen (all interlinked).
For all new dwellings, buildings converted to dwellings, loft conversions and dwellings that are substantially extended or altered the Building Regulations require that mains operated smoke alarms are fitted.
4. Kitchens, Do I need a fuse spur for washer, dryer, fridge, extractor etc (This one got them arguing)
no
5. Kitchens, whats the most popular / easy way (new dwellings) wiring cookers / hobs (45A switch behind oven housing? With a socket on for gas in future).
suitably rated double pole switch above worktop with cooker outlet plate behind cooker or replace cooker outlet plate with an unswitched socket if required.
6. Are you allowed sockets / cooker switches in kitchen cupboards
Yes

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

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[telectrix]

what he said, even though it hurts me to agree with a southerner.

 

[Darkwood]

I just pull Q4 -

Remembering I don't touch domestic nor have for 10yrs .. I was under the impression that if an appliance is built in then a means of local isolation is required without the need to remove the appliance?... correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Risteard]

The minimum permitted here for new builds is a Grade D Category LD2 system, which means that you also need a smoke alarm in living rooms. Not sure about England though.

 

[MrTrance]

........

So do I need a cooker switch above worktop or can I get away with putting it in a cupboard and then 6mm straight to hob?

Also for a fan oven would you just mount a socket behind it, would this need a fuse spur? Or could I put this in the cupboard too?

Thanks

 

[MrTrance]

Also on a new build / re wire can I feed the smoke circuit from a light circuit? Or does this have to have its own breaker??

 

[telectrix]

cooker isolator needs to be accessible. inside a cupboard with loads of crap in front of it may not be readily accessible. and it's bad practice to go straight to the cooker without a CCU.

 

[Risteard]

Also on a new build / re wire can I feed the smoke circuit from a light circuit? Or does this have to have its own breaker??

That is permitted by BS 5839-6, yes.

 

[Andy78]

I just pull Q4 -

Remembering I don't touch domestic nor have for 10yrs .. I was under the impression that if an appliance is built in then a means of local isolation is required without the need to remove the appliance?... correct me if I'm wrong.

Not sure of any requirement, think it is best practice. I always fit isolation where an appliance has to be moved to gain access to the flex/connections/plug, either integrated or freestanding appliances.

 

[Andy78]

Also on a new build / re wire can I feed the smoke circuit from a light circuit? Or does this have to have its own breaker??

It is also best to feed from a lighting circuit as a dedicated MCB could be turned off leaving no detection.

 

[Leesparkykent]

So do I need a cooker switch above worktop or can I get away with putting it in a cupboard and then 6mm straight to hob?
You can put the cooker switch in a cupboard if you want but its not ideal, you could also come out the load side of the cooker switch in to the hob if you wanted to but again not ideal IMO.
Also for a fan oven would you just mount a socket behind it, would this need a fuse spur? Or could I put this in the cupboard too?
I would mount an unswitched socket behind the cooker with a means of isolation above worktop. You could mount a socket outlet in an adjacent cupboard without isolation above the counter but not ideal IMO.
Thanks

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[davesparks]

1 - you must ensure the existing bonding is fit for purpose and not showing any signs of deterioration if you are not going to upgrade it. If no bonding is present then it will of course need to be installed
2- no
3- no requirement to install smokes on a rewire. New builds will depend on the exact details of the building, best consult LABC if unsure.

 

[MrTrance]

Ok now one of the lads is adament you cant put accesorries in kitchen cupboards at all, he says they need to be fixed to a solid wall????

 

[MrTrance]

Some saying I need smokes on a rewire and some not.... so which will it be?

 

[davesparks]

Ok now one of the lads is adament you cant put accesorries in kitchen cupboards at all, he says they need to be fixed to a solid wall????

Which regulation number has he quoted to support this statement?

 

[davesparks]

Some saying I need smokes on a rewire and some not.... so which will it be?

If you want facts rather than opinions you'd be better of reading the appropriate building reg, rather than getting a bunch of stranger's opinions
The answer will still be no, you don't need to install any fire detection on a straightforward rewire.
If it is part of a larger job which involves planning permission or building notice then it may well be that fire detection will need to be installed.

 

[Andy78]

Which regulation number has he quoted to support this statement?

Further to this, if ten electricians cant agree on "a few easy ones" I suggest you buy a regs books between you all and also look at some building regs .... lol

 

[Darkwood]

Ok now one of the lads is adament you cant put accesorries in kitchen cupboards at all, he says they need to be fixed to a solid wall????

Give him a slap then... as long as its easily accessible, not prone to been knocked on/off and fixed to a solid part of the cupboard (not the flimsy back panels) then it ok... Ideal position is up front top position - they are mainly just for isolation purposes for appliance removal so this can be relaxed a bit...

The cooker isolation should be readily accessable for isolation in case of emergency like fire where getting to the cooker controls would be dangerous... again kitchen design lends a hand into what could be allowed and what not, its a little bit down to risk assessment and interpretation of accessible.

 

[atm84]

Give him a slap then... as long as its easily accessible, not prone to been knocked on/off and fixed to a solid part of the cupboard (not the flimsy back panels) then it ok... Ideal position is up front top position - they are mainly just for isolation purposes for appliance removal so this can be relaxed a bit...

The cooker isolation should be readily accessable for isolation in case of emergency like fire where getting to the cooker controls would be dangerous... again kitchen design lends a hand into what could be allowed and what not, its a little bit down to risk assessment and interpretation of accessible.

I always try to install isolates with a maximum of 2000mm from the cooker but not less than 600mm (or was it 300mm). Don't think it's a specific reg, it's just good practice. No body could say it's right or wrong but it's just good practice and in the absence of regulations that's the next best thing in my opinion.