Fire Alarm and Data Segregation

[mtraczykowski]

We have recently done some work in a local school andnoticed a new fire alarm system has been installed and a lot of additional RJ45data points, in most areas all the cables are contained in a 100m PVC trunkingwith no internal segregation, I know that as fire cables are rated to the samevoltage as 6242Y cables Cat5E cables are clearly not, however we belive this is not good practice?
Can someone please post the relevant BS-7671 regulation andalso BS-5839 that states what is accepltable?

 

[tazz]

Both standards run together....and answer is no. Data should be run in its own basket or trunking.
The fire cabled is classed as life saving, and is solid screened, were cat5 is braided screened.
You will fined the fire fp and trunking was installed and then later, the data guys have come along looking for an easy route. Other problem here, if the fp is fitted correctly, cable clips or metal straps will be holding the fp in the trunking...were now the data will be left loose in the trunking. Giving another safety issue.

 

[Guest77]

Might well be the FA installers have chosen an easy route as well as the other way around, Tazz is very bias :biggrin:

 

[tazz]

Data guys are too lazy to install trunking.....they would usually throw it over the false ceiling....lol

 

[mtraczykowski]

The fire alarm installation has been fitted in existing 100mm general power trunking, with no internal support system, it is the exact section in all regulations that this does not conform that i am trying to find?

Cheers

 

[tazz]

Under Bs 5839 part 1 section 26...... BS7671 Regulation 528-01-04

 

[tazz]

Your Welcome......!!!!!!!!!

 

[davesparks]

So the sparks put the trunking in and both the FA and data people were lazy buggers, that sounds far more like the norm these days!

 

[Harni]

So the sparks put the trunking in and both the FA and data people were lazy buggers, that sounds far more like the norm these days!

Sad as it is, that is the norm these days. I went to a site today installed by another company and commissioned. They were kicked off site because the system was a state. I went in today to find not a single bit of cable support above tiles except some very sparse plastic ties. Only place metal P clips were used was in boiler and plant rooms where cable was surface mounted. Call points wonky, smoke detectors incorrectly sited and this was a professional installer used by a big well known building company. They hand the building over in 2 weeks time so weren't happy when i said it was all ****e lol

 

[tazz]

And getting worse...but its down to the building designer or Architect. His Specification and cable schedule should be checked and valued against any method statement, cad drawing design put forward by any fire alarm contractor.

 

[mtraczykowski]

Cheers everyone for your input it is much appreciated

 

[Engineer54]

Sounds to me like their treating schools now like shop fits!! eg, ...Anything goes!! Where is the site supervision these days, or is that a thing of the past too??

 

[Diddy]

This happens on jobs where the Fire Alarm is subbed out as well as the data ect. Some decent companies I have worked for would have handled all of this in house as they covered the whole range of electrical work. The benefit in my opinion is install standards are usually kept high by the on site charge hands ect. Doesn't really count if the main electrical contractor just subs it all out and forgets about it.

 

[tazz]

Sounds to me like their treating schools now like shop fits!! eg, ...Anything goes!! Where is the site supervision these days, or is that a thing of the past too??

Far from it, BC are really clamping down, and the construction companies to. If your an electrical or fire contractor, and you have not followed the spec or your own method statement...then be prepared to loose money off the contract. If the spec states separate tray, and all cables to be singles in galv box trunking......then if you throw T&E across a ceiling, then get ready for the crap that follows.

 

[rmc86uk]

Data are the worse ones! I am installing BMS and we put our own secondary containment in for BMS only. Turn my back and Data lads have flown all their cables in! Another thing that grinds my gears is when we tie all our BMS cables in nice and neat and then the Door access or CCTV come along and tie to our bunch! I suppose it doesn't help when the job at the moment has got 1 x 100mm wide tray which covers BMS, Access Control and Emergency Lighting!

 

[tazz]

Again very simple...go back to the specification issued, and if data is stated to be on a separate basket and the data guys haven`t install it.....then issue an obstruction notice to the main contractor. They have been paid to install, so if agreed they will have to remove or pay you for part of your containment install.
Why should you pay for containment, for others to use and same money.

 

[Poult12]

As i have only been with my company - we have asked that we are provided basket or trunking separate to all other cables if (an SSE job) otherwise we would usually put in our own trunking/containment ourselves. This is how i was taught.