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K

KevA

Hi,

Is there a risk of tripping a consumer unit RCD when measuring earth continuity on a class 1 fixed appliance e.g. a wall heater supplied via a FCU.

I carry out a continuity test between accessible earthed metal parts of the equipment and the earth in the supply (i.e. FCU screw with the FCU unassembled), with the appliance switched off (i.e. not an in-situ test), as shown at http://apollo600.seaward.co.uk...and-fixed-appliances/

The test equipment test current is 200mA for 2 secs.

Is there any danger of anyone receiving a shock if they touch an external conductive part of any appliance in the property when the test is being carried out?

Regards
Kevin
 
you should disconnect the appliance from the circuit to test it.
 
Except when you are able to do a point-to-point test, as outlined in the article KevA links to.
Do try and read it.

Telectrix is correct and your linked article is of no relevance...

The problem with this type of testing (apart from the 200 mA pfft) is that with a 'point to point' test you can be reading parallel earth paths - a clearer example of this would be a wall mounted water heater, you could have a completely broken CPC and still get a good reading through the fixed wiring/plumbing.

In my opinion fixed equipment testing should be left to an electrician (part of the fixed wiring test) - it demands a higher level of competence.
 
And people dumb down the 2377 Pat testing course, the mind boggles. I am not telling anyone to do the course, but at least have the code of practice to refer to, that way you may well save your self the inconvenience of having to go to court or worse.

Cheers……………Howard
 
Telectrix is correct and your linked article is of no relevance...

Then that's an argument for you to have with Seaward, as they obviously think it is relevant...
Not my article, BTW. It was linked to by KevA in the OP.

In my opinion fixed equipment testing should be left to an electrician (part of the fixed wiring test) - it demands a higher level of competence.

Your opinion, as you say.
I've had the misfortune to have met some 'electricians' who I would not have trusted to wire a plug.
There's allsorts out there...
 
Then that's an argument for you to have with Seaward, as they obviously think it is relevant...
Not my article, BTW. It was linked to by KevA in the OP.



Your opinion, as you say.
I've had the misfortune to have met some 'electricians' who I would not have trusted to wire a plug.
There's allsorts out there...


Do you agree with me that in certain situations the point to point test will NOT prove the integrity of the appliance CPC - even though a test 'pass' is indicated?

It is for this reason the appliance should be disconnected from the fixed wiring when being tested.

To disconnect the appliance from the fixed wiring demands a higher level of competence (than regular PAT) - safe isolation procedures, avoiding accidental RCD operation when working on dead circ etc etc - this is a fact not an opinion.

You may have met a dodgy electrician or two in the past - but how is that relevant to this? I have met 1 or 2 dodgy gas fitters in the past but I would still call a gas fitter when my boiler needs servicing.
 
Earth bonding aside, how do you propose to carry out the insulation test with it connected to the fixed installation?

There is only one way to carry out in service inspection and testing of electrical equipment, and that is in accordance with the current code of practice, which is the 4th edition. It matters not what Seaward or anyone else says or thinks, the fact to the matter is you need to comply with legislation, and that is the Health and Safety at Work act, and the Electricity at work Regs, neither are optional, and the 4th edition of the COP meets that requirement. If you go to court and say "Seaward said………………..", you will get hung drawn and quartered.

Cheers……………..Howard
 
Earth bonding aside, how do you propose to carry out the insulation test with it connected to the fixed installation?

Read the Seaward article.

There is only one way to carry out in service inspection and testing of electrical equipment, and that is in accordance with the current code of practice, which is the 4th edition.

Read the Seaward article.

It matters not what Seaward or anyone else says or thinks, the fact to the matter is you need to comply with legislation, and that is the Health and Safety at Work act, and the Electricity at work Regs, neither are optional

Indeed they aren't.
So, mind pointing out where in HASAWA or EAW it specifies how to perform an IR test?

and the 4th edition of the COP meets that requirement. If you go to court and say "Seaward said………………..", you will get hung drawn and quartered.

Read the Seaward article.
 
Read the Seaward article.



Read the Seaward article.



Indeed they aren't.
So, mind pointing out where in HASAWA or EAW it specifies how to perform an IR test?



Read the Seaward article.


The Seaward article shows the insulation test carried out on the load terminals of the FCU which is now unscrewed and hanging down - who has safely isolated the supply for you to do this? Seaward have not specifically mentioned this (other than disclaimers in paragraphs 3&4). It is possible to carry out the test without isolating the supply - just switch off FCU and your appliance cabling will be dead -

But consider this scenario:
1) You switch off and unscrew the FCU while the fixed circuit is still live and pull it down to access the terminals (for the IR test)
2) Unfortunately the fixed wiring live pops out of it's terminal because it was loose
3) You realise quite quickly that you don't even know where the consumer unit/distribution board is (it may be in a locked cupboard)
4) You are working in a busy commercial kitchen
5) Do you evacuate everyone from the kitchen or do you leave the live wire hanging out while you search for CU/DB?
6) You quickly realise that you are completely outside of your competence level
7) Your customer now thinks you are a D***head

Even if Seaward are showing the IR test on a dead circuit they haven't mentioned that if you don't switch off the FCU or if it's an unswitched type you will be testing the fixed installation at 500v too (along with any sensitive equipment connected to it).

The Seaward article is a marketing document - Seaward want you to buy the meter with all the leads etc so they will have you believe you can do anything.
If you have to isolate the supply for the IR test (as I hope you will agree), then why do the point to point test?? may as well test the CPC properly!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Scenario considered, and subsequently rejected.

All task should be done within one's competence. Why would this be any different?
It's as if you've interpreted that article as saying 'Don't worry if you've never tried this before! Crack on! What's the worst that could happen?'

A bit silly, really...
 
I give up on this one, i will only bang my head against a wall for so long. If you want to do it the Seaward way, then that is up to you. I prefer to do it properly, and will continue to deliver the C&G course to the appropriate code of practice, and the legal requirements, neither of which are written by Seaward, but to their credit, they make very good test equipment.

Cheers…………..Howard
 
I give up on this one, i will only bang my head against a wall for so long.

Believe me, the feeling has become mutual.

If you want to do it the Seaward way, then that is up to you. I prefer to do it properly, and will continue to deliver the C&G course to the appropriate code of practice, and the legal requirements, neither of which are written by Seaward, but to their credit, they make very good test equipment.

Quite why you think that the things you've mentioned are in some way mutually exclusive baffles me.
We may never know...
 
... where in HASAWA or EAW it specifies how to perform an IR test?

Haven't got the Acts to hand to quote anything specific but within BS7671 their is a clear comment on HSE guidance that in meeting BS7671 you will be achieving the requirements of the EAWR. GN3 supports BS7671 and this stipulates a method for IR testing so indirectly you could argue that this specifies how to perform an IR test within the EAWRs?.
 
Nothing more childish than a parting comment with the threat of not coming back "because you're calling it a day" (to paraphrase).

Close the door on the way out.

Give up guys...

You can lead a horse to water....
as glenn would say. " you can't educate pork".


Offensive as well as blinkered and ignorant? You're really outdoing yourselves here.
No matter, we'll call it a day, and you can carry on carrying on.
 

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