Flexible Conduit (N.Bundy job)

[UNG]

I'm with you. It was a throwaway comment in that the garage wasn't exactly well kept and there were worse places for a rough installation. I'd suggested trunking as the ideal option from my first post, but hadn't watched the whole video to know whether there was a good reason for not doing so - regardless, flexible conduit seemed like the least best option!

Given the guy had just done a rewire the homeowner may have dumped a lot of stuff in the garage out of the house

Trunking would have been my first choice,
The flexible conduit may have looked a bit better if he hadn't cut it back short as the bend above the CU looks like he didn't have enough tube and the way he has tram track fixed it with saddles makes it look even worse, it would have looked much better if they were bunched together and an all round band "saddle" used

 

[ipf]

For a full rewire there aren't many circuits.....and it'll be a job getting any additional circuits to the CU. Another reason for trunking.

 

[StephenRowley]

We're only as good as out last mistake

 

[nicebutdim]

We're only as good as out last mistake

And to be fair, this situation is one of aesthetics and practicality - no one's life is at risk from kopex and foam.

 

[MJPD29]

The kopex doesn't look good but its an aesthetic problem. Judging from videos his work is to a good standard. Everyone is quick to point out faults from behind their keyboard, when the majority of us don't put our work on display for others to pick faults in, myself included. I think we can give him a bit of slack with this one.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The kopex doesn't look good but its an aesthetic problem. Judging from videos his work is to a good standard. Everyone is quick to point out faults from behind their keyboard, when the majority of us don't put our work on display for others to pick faults in, myself included. I think we can give him a bit of slack with this one.

to be fair to Nick his work is normally class , I feel he was almost trying to be too ‘neat’ trying to put the twin & earth through kopex , it really was over kill and in the end looked a bit ‘naff’...
had he simply wacked up some 50x50 trunking or even just clipped the cables to the bottom of the joists it would have done the same job at half the expense

 

[7029 dave]

DD, yeah clipping cable today seems out of bounds, with the new generation of sparks, and I don't know why.

 

[Dustydazzler]

DD, yeah clipping cable today seems out of bounds, with the new generation of sparks, and I don't know why.

Agree and I really don’t understand why , neatly dressed & clipped cables are perfectly acceptable...unless at risk of getting bashed.
nick could have clipped the cables underside of the ceiling joists and it would have been perfectly acceptable imo

 

[nicebutdim]

Agree and I really don’t understand why , neatly dressed & clipped cables are perfectly acceptable...unless at risk of getting bashed.
nick could have clipped the cables underside of the ceiling joists and it would have been perfectly acceptable imo

I like the idea of containment where cables are visible, but feel that it should allow ready access and (if used) needs be more aesthetically pleasing than no containment.

As previously stated; no one is at any risk from his use of kopex and, having read a few comments on the video, it seems the customer was very happy. It does seem to be a case of trying to hard and in the process made a less than ideal choice.

Still not liking the idea of that foam though

 

[Pete999]

DD, yeah clipping cable today seems out of bounds, with the new generation of sparks, and I don't know why.

Plastic clips, and the passing of buckle clips, has in my opinion caused the trade to turn into a bash it in and ignore the ascetics of installation work, there are folk out there that ignore the cable management side of things, as long as the CU internals looks like it grew there, jobs a good un, can be seen by the number of Electrician showing pics of a finished CU, but not how the cables get there, the skill of clipping twin and Earth, has sadly disappeared, the same can be said for all surface mounted cables.
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I like the idea of containment where cables are visible, but feel that it should allow ready access and (if used) needs be more aesthetically pleasing than no containment.

As previously stated; no one is at any risk from his use of kopex and, having read a few comments on the video, it seems the customer was very happy. It does seem to be a case of trying to hard and in the process made a less than ideal choice.

Still not liking the idea of that foam though

Probably the reason the customer was happy, stems from the fact the the customer is ignorant of the methods available to skilled Electricians, as long as it works OK they will be pleased.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Interesting posts, in Europe where flexible conduit is used extensively there is legislation that does not allow filling a conduit to over 2/3rds of its cross section, this equates to a maximum of 3 x 2.5 singles in a 20mm flexible, I don't know the c/c of T&E, but think it would probably come to more than a 2/3rds of the internal area of a 20mm flexible at 52mm2, anyone know the official cross sectional area of T&E?

 

[nicebutdim]

Plastic clips, and the passing of buckle clips, has in my opinion caused the trade to turn into a bash it in and ignore the ascetics of installation work...

The old house I grew up in was wired in the 50s with VIR and buckle clips. None of that wiring was on display, but the installers didn't care that no one would see it - everything was carefully clipped with fastidious neatness and the pride taken in that work was clear to see. Some later additions were also installed with thought and care, but much of the later wiring was thrown in without care for anything other than getting paid and getting out.

 

[Dustydazzler]

containment was designed to house single insulated cable ?

twin and earth was designed with its own incorporated an outer sheath so to be ‘clipped direct’

so why are we bothering to contain twin and earth cable

???

 

[Pete999]

containment was designed to house single insulated cable ?

twin and earth was designed with its own incorporated an outer sheath so to be ‘clipped direct’

so why are we bothering to contain twin and earth cable

???

Time is money DD

 

[Dustydazzler]

Time is money DD

does it really take that much longer to neatly clip 10 cables rather than struggle to ram it throughplastic conduit

 

[7029 dave]

containment was designed to house single insulated cable ?

twin and earth was designed with its own incorporated an outer sheath so to be ‘clipped direct’

so why are we bothering to contain twin and earth cable

???

I loved surface work clipping cables, always bought white t&e, which was used a lot.

 

[Pete999]

does it really take that much longer to neatly clip 10 cables rather than struggle to ram it throughplastic conduit

Depends on the type of clip DD, they don't teach proper clipping these days at instant Sparky School, sadly bo longer considered a necessary skill, just pay up and pass the tests.

 

[nicebutdim]

containment was designed to house single insulated cable ?

twin and earth was designed with its own incorporated an outer sheath so to be ‘clipped direct’

so why are we bothering to contain twin and earth cable

???

Might be considered neater. Could take up less space if properly thought out. Allows for future boarding of that garage ceiling.

It's not necessary, but might be something to discuss with a customer when quoting for a job. Some will be happy with clipped cables, but others might prefer paying more to place them out of sight.
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Depends on the type of clip DD, they don't teach proper clipping these days at instant Sparky School, sadly bo longer considered a necessary skill, just pay up and pass the tests.

I doubt it's quite so clear cut. Certainly an apprenticeship should provide more opportunities to learn a craft, but plenty of people time served tradespeople don't seem to care much for attention to detail. People will either have the inclination to do things to a decent standard or they wont. The rough electrical work I grew up around was installed long before faster routes were available into the trade.

 

[ipf]

containment was designed to house single insulated cable ?
twin and earth was designed with its own incorporated an outer sheath so to be ‘clipped direct’
so why are we bothering to contain twin and earth cable
???

Neatness and time saving.
T+E was designed to be clipped direct but why should it be?
What about entering or exiting dado trunking with cavity walls, for example?
In this (through garage) situation, with all outgoing cables from a CU, I'd have installed plastic trunking thirty years back.......T+E or not.
It's a matter of looking at the best possible method of rearranging wiring routes in an existing property.... not wiring from scratch, when various means of clipping could well have provided the best method.
We still see methods for improving aesthetics from the 1920's even,......remember capping and casing?

 

[MJPD29]

The old house I grew up in was wired in the 50s with VIR and buckle clips. None of that wiring was on display, but the installers didn't care that no one would see it - everything was carefully clipped with fastidious neatness and the pride taken in that work was clear to see. Some later additions were also installed with thought and care, but much of the later wiring was thrown in without care for anything other than getting paid and getting out.

The house I currently live in still has all that old wiring beneath the stairs to where it would have connected the the board at one stage and its like a work of art i dont can't bring myself to remove it