Stroma Certification Scheme Fraudulent Certificate

[ebrcknrdg]

Hi, new member here and homeowner. I asked for an Electrical certificate to be produced when I purchased my home in Sept 2020. One was produced which looked legit, Ill admit I didn't think to double check but not sure if many people like me would have, I am a single mother with two children. Anyway fast forward to last week and I had an electrician round to look at a couple of jobs such as loose sockets etc. When he took the front off the socket he asked who had done the wiring as it wasn't earthed correctly and hadn't been done to a good standard. I dug out the electrical certificate (attached - stroma) and upon investigation it appears to be fraudulent. I cant find the company's phone number but I have found them on companies house with an address. I contacted stroma who haven't ever heard of the electrician or company. I then contacted my solicitor who are saying it is nothing to do with them but they will act on my behalf to contact the homeowner to try to get this resolved. At this point I should point out I have the home owners personal phone number but unsure whether to contact him myself. I have in the meantime got another electrician out to produce a report (attached-napit). This has confirmed that the first report is a load of rubbish. I.e the first report says the wiring is 3 years old, the new report says 40! There are 5 c2's on the report which means it should never have been signed off as satisfactory. My question is what do I do? Who is responsible? Stroma cant help as it is not a registered electrician. I have tried to call trading standards but it seems to be citizens advice phone lines who have told me to contact solicitors and solicitors have as good as said I need to shell out more money to pursue this. Is this a case for a small claims court?

 

[snowhead]

Did you pay for the Inspection or did the seller arrange and pay for it?

Don't contact the homeowner yourself leave it to the Solicitor, their fees should be reimbursed by the seller, although don't rely on that happening.

I would have thought Stroma should be interested to help as someone is falsely claiming to be registered with Stroma.

 

[ebrcknrdg]

Did you pay for the Inspection or did the seller arrange and pay for it?

Don't contact the homeowner yourself leave it to the Solicitor, their fees should be reimbursed by the seller, although don't rely on that happening.

I would have thought Stroma should be interested to help as someone is falsely claiming to be registered with Stroma.

thank you for your reply

the seller arranged and paid for the first one and I arranged and paid for the second one

I would have thought the same, I am tempted to call them back now I know it is most definitely fraudulent

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I cannot give any advice on the legal side of it. However, I can confirm that the Stroma report is not worth anything. I can't think of any better words than that. It's not poor as that would imply it still has a semblance of a report, it doesn't as there are so many missing bits.

With regards the second report (Napit), It makes a refreshing change to see such a well written report. I'm sure we'll pick at some of the coding's, but it's clearly a thorough and professional report, as it should be.

I would think Stroma should take some kind of action if someone is fraudulently using their name. I would ring them again and also email so you have it in writing. Stroma are in the process of discontinuing being part of this scheme (Napit are taking over all their electrician customers), so perhaps they are feeling less inclined to intervene.

 

[Vortigern]

You could really make a federal case out of this and go up all sorts of blind alleys. Bit of a Gordian knot. Do as Alexander did and don't try and untie it, just cut through it all. Which it seems you have already done. Electrical safety is the main aim and with the new (hopefully) pukka report you have a way forward, sort that out and you will be home and dry. Incidentally the original report has clearly led to retrospectively, misrepresentations on the part of the seller wittingly or otherwise. There may be a claim to make through the conveyancing company. This would be limited to the cost of remedying the defects found in the second report you commissioned. But that is a whole other can of worms, try not to conflate the two.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I asked for an Electrical certificate to be produced when I purchased my home in Sept 2020. One was produced which looked legit,

all solicitors will ask that question before you bought the property .have you got any test certs from the others , so the begging question is why has stroma not doing any thing about it .
and if it was NIC EIC or NAPIT they would jump over it .

 

[Mike Johnson]

I think the begging question is why did your solicitor give you a fraudulent certificate, it is their responsibility to ensure that all documentation in any sale is correct/legal? That is what they are paid for.

 

[Deleted account]

This is serious fraud. Would you have bought the property on the basis of the correct report?
would you have renegotiated the price?



i would contemplate contacting police, but they will probably say it’s a civil matter.

Nappit have bought stroma so contacting them is a must. They probably won’t do anything, but they might as they don’t want the bad publicity.

ultimately in this case the onus is on the person who ordered and paid for the works to sort this.
it may be they where equally conned, but they have passed an illegal document to you so they are who your solicitor needs to target.

it Will then be up to the seller to take legal action against the certificate provider.

I have no doubt that you have a good case.

my advice.

inform Nappit

Inform estate agent.

inform your solicitor.

don’t make direct accusations. Ask questions? And tell them what others have informed you only. Don’t give your suspicions. give the facts and suspicions of experts as you’ve been told.
basically th3 guys who did the second report and what we are saying.

at this stage you don’t need to tell who the experts are, just you’ve taken advise regarding the first report and this is what you’ve been informed. Ask “ Can you give clarification and comment? “.

leave it at that for now.

please let us know how you do.

good luck.

 

[Deleted account]

I think the begging question is why did your solicitor give you a fraudulent certificate, it is their responsibility to ensure that all documentation in any sale is correct/legal? That is what they are paid for.

partly agree with this, also I would question one set of solicitors passing these documents to another. Neither of them picked up on it...

but to be honest how would the solicitors know if it’s a fraudulent document or not?

i Would say it’s near impossible for a solicitor to know what is acceptable or not in the electrical world, they would have to be conversant in all the legalities of EWR.
add the non statutory side also... this would make it impossible.

even us electricians struggle with that.

I suppose they could have contacted stroma to check the authenticity of company carrying out works, but how far should solicitors go. It all adds up with there bills.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I suppose they could have contacted stroma to check the authenticity of company carrying out works, but how far should solicitors go. It all adds up with there bills.

Solicitors have to go as far as is necessary to ensure that any document forming part of the sale is legally binding and accurate, the sellers solicitor for providing the document and the buyers solicitor for including the document as part of the sale agreement, the problem will be getting one to admit negligence or point the finger at the other, bit of a boys club.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I have not bought a house in the UK for some years, but I think there is a legal vehicle for going back to a seller on the provision of inaccurate information, or neglecting to provide information that would impact on the sale or value, this process would have to be started through the buyers solicitor.

 

[ebrcknrdg]

Solicitors have as good as said they don’t even look at these documents. They aren’t qualified to do so as they aren’t electricians. But they will pursue seller to contribute towards costs when I know those costs else I will be taking further action. My question is when applying towards a small claims court will I be be claiming against electrician or seller of the property? I’m guessing seller of the property however I need to prove he knew about the fraudulent certificate in the first place or he was the one who did the works. This is going to prove tricky unless he admits. I keep contemplating contacting him myself to try to keep this away from solicitors and courts but I doubt a person who would do such a thing in the first place would have a change of heart ?

 

[snowhead]

My question is when applying towards a small claims court will I be be claiming against electrician or seller of the property? I’m guessing seller of the property however I need to prove he knew about the fraudulent certificate in the first place or he was the one who did the works.

Your only claim is against the Seller, you didn't commission or pay for the inspection, the seller may have a claim against the electrician.

The seller doesn't have to know it's fraudulent or not, only that it has now proven to be incorrect

 

[Mike Johnson]

Do not under any circumstance's contact the seller direct, this would leave you open to any thing they want to say you agreed to, at the moment the ball is firmly in your court on how you wish to pursue this, the fraudulent document was accepted by you in good faith, this is information provided by the seller, it is their responsibility to ensure that the information they gave you was accurate, as is the responsibility of the solicitor to ensure that any information given to you or your solicitor pertaining to the sale is not withholding any information that would effect the sale, for instance I believe there is now in the documentation a clause that a seller has to declare if they are in dispute with a neighbour or have taken out any restraining orders on them, what you have is a clear case of miss-leading information on the condition of the property you have purchased, at the very minimum the seller will have to pay for any repairs to bring these defects up to the standard reported to you i.e. a "Satisfactory" electrical report, additionally you could go for the Jugular on the property not being safe to be occupied and therefore additional costs where incurred by you to find alternative accommodation whilst this unsafe installation was rectified.

 

[andyb]

I agree with Mike & Snowhead, the dispute is between yourself and the seller, this is clear.

Having said that the electrical issues seem minor and would only take a couple of hours to correct, so if you allow a day and some materials you are looking at £300 or less to get a safe installation.

With that in mind, I’d instruct my solicitor to write to the seller a letter explaining that he/she has committed fraud, outline why and demand say £500 to correct the defects to stop further proceedings. I don’t think I’d take it any further than that due to cost, but I think you would more than likely get a cheque through in a few days.

Looking at the certificate I don’t think that you have a particularly dangerous installation, the test results seem okay and you have a newish metal consumer unit, which is probably the addition/alteration that’s 1 year old. Might be worth asking for that certificate but I’m sure if the seller had one they'd have supplied it.

 

[Deleted account]

I agree with Mike & Snowhead, the dispute is between yourself and the seller, this is clear.

Having said that the electrical issues seem minor and would only take a couple of hours to correct, so if you allow a day and some materials you are looking at £300 or less to get a safe installation.

With that in mind, I’d instruct my solicitor to write to the seller a letter explaining that he/she has committed fraud, outline why and demand say £500 to correct the defects to stop further proceedings. I don’t think I’d take it any further than that due to cost, but I think you would more than likely get a cheque through in a few days.

Looking at the certificate I don’t think that you have a particularly dangerous installation, the test results seem okay and you have a newish metal consumer unit, which is probably the addition/alteration that’s 1 year old. Might be worth asking for that certificate but I’m sure if the seller had one they'd have supplied it.

I like and agree with this post, but get an actual quote first and add any redecoration that will be needed as a result of works done.

 

[GBDamo]

The fist report is abysmal the second very thorough.

There are a lot of observations, some duplicate the same issue, but not a lot of cost in putting it right.

Just a lot of tidying up really.

However your dispute goes with the seller I can't see that lot coming to more than a days labour and £20-30 in parts.

 

[Baddegg]

You could go further and argue that you purchased thinking the wiring was 3 years old as per the certificate, indicating it had been rewired recently........the seller/person ordering the report should have at least read the report and queried some of it, obviously to a layman the test results are gibberish but age or wiring is pretty simple and if they lived there longer than the stated 3 years they would have known that to be false or a mistake...

 

[Mike Johnson]

Go for the Jugular, they tried to screw you and think they got away with it, "do unto others as thoust would have them do unto you". ?

 

[Baddegg]

Bit harsh @Mike Johnson.....although the seller is obviously ultimately responsible in the eyes of the law the real villain is the person masquerading as a spark.....but let’s face it the seller has just gone with the cheapest he could find and is now gonna get bitten on the arse ?