French Regs/Signing off French installs?

[rs250250]

Hi All,

I am a qualified electrician, and I have been asked if I would be interested in wiring a chateau in France. Reading other posts, I now know that
The French version of the IEE (CEE) wiring regulations which correspond to the UK regs is NFC15-100 for BT.

What is the process for actually getting the work signed off? Would a UK sparky be able to get work signed off?

Think I will need to brush up on my Francais!

Many Thanks

​

 

[Top Cat]

As someone that has a French brother in law and visits regularly i would say don't bother. If you think it's bad hear, the French are a nightmare. You will be jumping through hoops trying to get it signed off and if you don't speak french you are on a looser from the start!

 

[WilcoxElec]

The organisation that provides inspection and certification is www.consuel.com - there will be a regional office.

However there are numerous difficulties which should prevent you from undertaking a domestic electrical installation project in France - besides the need to be quite fluent in the language (you do not, for example, know the precise litanies of French swear words to use in which situation LOL). You can only officially do a DIY type job – and the Consuel is often more critical in these cases ( I am told). You would not be able to provide your customers with a certificate for the "decenale insurance" – because you need to be registered to be insured – and you need a French electriciens qualification to get the insurance. You would be using materials which are very different in a building which is constructed in a way you are not experienced with. &c &c --- I have to say that – the really responsible attitude I would ecpect from a UK qualified professional in this situation is that they should agree that the job should only be done by a qualified French artisans. (I expect your clients building insurers would strongly agree with me on this! Also, if they ever sell the property, the electrics can be a BIG issue in the house sellers report which is now required..... )



Take it from someone who has ripped out several UK DIY installations which have gone wrong - - don't bring out spools of twin and earth and a UK CUs and expect to do a job which is not going to have to be ripped out at some time in the future!


When British say "Oh but – it was done by a qualified sparky – they are actually saying they have been conned in some way!


As an experienced French electricien who has also worked in industry in the UK I would certainly not touch a domestic job in the UK (which falls under Part P or whatever )– and I would explain to anyone all the reasons why not -- ..... why should you believe that you can do a good job in France with no experience of our system, language, building trade --- &c &C ???

:32:

 

[rs250250]

Gents,

Many thanks for the insightful replies. It was just as I thought, I did not want to do the job in the first instance, but said to the client I would ask.
If truth be told, I would not have touched it with a barge pole! Great to get some feedback to cement my decision of a big "NO".

Still, its interesting all the same, to see how the French go about it.

Thanks again guys. Off to eat some onions now!

Au Revoir

 

[WilcoxElec]

There are really excellent guides used by professionals and produced by Norme installation électrique, certification électricité, label hpe Promotelec pour une meilleure sécurité which cover the ways things should be done in good detail. The Mémento Locaux d’habitation 25e édition - is in French, but you would recognise what it is on about. The regs/normes are really important for safety and keeping trained up to meet the constant changes is too. However - it is the experience with the materials - tools and techniques used here to get a high quality finish &c....and are the main part of the job - as in the UK. The diffences in techniques are quite considerable, but if you get to watch or work with a French electricien you will see and recognise the sense and skill.

 

[rs250250]

Just been out to France for a short break, lovely weather, terrible electrics!
Makes me laugh, I am not allowed to do any installs out there, but the state of the electrics that I saw, were totally and utterly SHOCKING!
If I conducted an EICR, would condemn and probably shut it off before someone was killed.

Rather amusing...

 

[WilcoxElec]

As an electrician I think you should say that you were concerned rather than amused! :thinking: Did you explain the dangers to anyone? Did you recommend calling a local electrician or suggest to arrange a Consuel inspection? Although I am always coming across instalations which are worse than anything I have seen before, I am sure that that would be true of experience in the UK too.

 

[Clivehd]

I owned a house in France. When I bought it the electrics ran from an armoured cable through a juction box to wooden board with two rewireable fuse carriers to loads of extension leads for lights, power, water heater etc. I installed all the new electrics and when I sold the house a french (electrician) man was sent to check all the electrical installation for the purchaser. He tested the RCD's, he checked the bonding, he was surprised at some of the work I had done which he said was not necessary, and when checking the earths he claimed my kitchen sockets had none.

I told him they were properly earthed and after a lot of bad french from me and no english from him I insisted, so he then checked his test leads and found one was fractured and intermittent!! Anyway - right or wrong I used UK cables rather than singles, much of the wiring was exposed in the attached garage so he could see what it was, I used French oulets, difficult to wire, and put in rings as well as radials. I had UK light fittings and UK light switches. He wrote his report and detailed all his test results and was delighted with my earth rod!!! The lot passed without any problem and the house was sold.

At one point, a while earlier, the main incoming RCD failed, which was the suppliers responsibility. EDF came along within 1/2hr, pulled it out, fitted a new one, had coffee in the house, looked around and went on their merry way without a word.

Would I do it again -no, would I suggest you do this -no. My heart was in my mouth and I thought I might have to pay a french sparks to come a do it all again. But that's just my story. It was an experience believe me.

 

[Engineer54]

, and put in rings

Tut Tut!!

 

[WilcoxElec]

Thankyou for posting this. ,,, I would like to say that the people who do the inspections when a property is sold are NOT electricians..... not at all. They have been on some sort of course and have a list of things to check - based on - supposedly typical examples - and they work for estate agents..... .. If I had time I would tell you all about it... -- (and tell tales about how random and annoying such inspections can be - except that they do generate a certain amount of business ......)..

French outlets bought at DIY stores are difficult to wire ---- you need to get used to certain "clips" types, with the right tools and the right wiring - and do several hundred - before you get real quick. I have seen some French sockets put in by an English sparky wired using twin and earth - and without the right box for the type of wall --- he must have swore! :smug2:.

 

[Grantbok]

help am uk quilified spark and need to wire my french home to the updated regs any one point me in the right direction...thanx grant

 

[Grantbok]

my email is grantbokphillips at gmail dot com

 

[WilcoxElec]

I shall contact you through the e-mail you have given....... I should be able to give you some pointers

 

[Lam Thai]

WilcoxElec would it be possible to send me a copy aswell and any pointers.

blocksofwood at gmail . com

 

[WilcoxElec]

Hi, I have decided to reply to you here in the first instance because, as a French Electricien, I discourage British Sparkies from getting involved in French Electrics.
The materials and practices are very different. The French adaptation of the IEC wiring regulations is call NF C-15 100 but I recommend as essential that you get hold of a copy of what is regarded as an authoritive text on French domestic electrics :- the 25th Edition of Les Mémentos PROMOTELEC - LOCAUX D'HABITATION Installation Électiques Privatives - available from Association Promotelec - Centrée sur les enjeux de notre société, l'association agit auprès des particuliers et des professionnels pour un habitat sûr, adapté à chacun et économe - I always have one in the Van.
If you are not very familiar with the British Regs and an experienced electrician then - you really MUST NOT try to tackle the wiring for a French Property.
If you are confident, trained and experienced, ready to adapt and fluent in French then you will at least understand the PROMOTELEC guide I mentioned, but you will still find it very difficult to get a good finish with stuff (materials, practices, building structures the TT Schema &c &c &c) that you are not familiar with.

As a professional electricien in France I know that the only way I could get a good safe quality installation in the UK, should I ever need one done, would be to get a UK qualified electricians to do it – (while I made cups of tea .. ). The saving money argument – “why should I pay someone to do something I can do myself” – kind if thing - just doesn't make sense -- think it thought! Don't be another one that goes through a great deal of frustration for a poor and unsafe installation which would not pass a proper professional inspection &c &C

 

[Victor]

Hi WilcoxElec,

I think that the request for a copy of the regs was aimed at me and not your good self. However I do have to agree with your last posting.

I have today visited a house here in France that is owned by an English 'sparky'......... I saw UK switches and UK spur fuses, which brings me to ask the question why do we bother to help others if this is what they do?

Would you ever dream of wiring a house in the UK with French switches etc?

On more than one occasion I have had to rip out UK consumer units and replace with the correct French one, only to be told that the UK one was 'CHEAPER'....was it cheaper after the customer had had to pay for two CU's.....NO!!!!!

 

[Lam Thai]

The regs are just for background reading for me, I been asked by a temple in France to see if I can get a copy of the regs so they can check if the works been done to the regs and advise them. Don't worry we won't go over there to take over your jobs, enough over here Wilcox.

 

[WilcoxElec]

OK... The full regs (NF C 15 -100 ) is a big Two volume document. The Guides from PROMOTELEC are what professionals use -- there are special guides to instalations in public buildings and so on......... Association Promotelec - Centrée sur les enjeux de notre société, l'association agit auprès des particuliers et des professionnels pour un habitat sûr, adapté à chacun et économe ..... I am not defending my business against competition from you ---- I am going this morning to see an instalation done by a someone described as a British Electrician - who has gone back to England leaving the owner without a Consuel certificate.....and very much in danger of losing their supply ...... It can get a bit stressful ! Good luck.

 

[Victor]

Lam Thai

Why are they asking an English (non registered French) electrician to tell them if the install complies with the regs? The fact that you are asking for a copy of the regs (that will all be in French) tells me that you dont know what the regs are.

Get either a French registered electrician to inspect it or have a Consuel inspection.

 

[Lam Thai]

Lam Thai

Why are they asking an English (non registered French) electrician to tell them if the install complies with the regs? The fact that you are asking for a copy of the regs (that will all be in French) tells me that you dont know what the regs are.

Get either a French registered electrician to inspect it or have a Consuel inspection.

The regs are not just for me, they are for Temple. They already spent over 300,000 euros for installations, also they hired french electricians and it took them 3 times to get signed off by the Consuel (different sparkies, different installations). They want to know the regs as guidance, so they don't throw money down the sink.

So they asked me for advice and I said get the copy of the regs and get someone who is technical to understand what they are doing.