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Hey guys,

Im starting to put my company out there more. And this is all a new journey for me being an apprentice and now being qualified/2391-52 qualified as well.

I was speaking to a friend about how he would go about a board change which I don’t agree with.
  • tell customer a fixed price £800 inc materials and carry out a board change
  • inform customer that the new board may not swim through (successful) due to XYZ fault.

Now this is my approach

- Carry out an EICR on a existing installation
Inform them £150-200 for an EICR (Hi madam/sir “name” your existing installation will require a periodic test to come to a conclusion whether it’s acceptable for a board change or not. (They might not like the sound of that and people don’t like pulling out money these days) I’m gonna also make it very clear that there may be faults which will require XYZ materials and labour time IF THERE IS.

- Once existing installation has been made safe/sound to BS7671 Regulations. And it’s satisfactory.

- Carry out a board upgrade - Conduct test again and issue out EIC.

I don’t even know… I might even be over complicating this from a customer point of view as they all get scared lol.
 
Fundamentally there are three reasons for a domestic CU change:

1. Cosmetic - as in, the client just wants an upgrade to be ‘modern’
2. As a result of alterations/existing CU isn’t big enough or doesn’t conform for new works
3. Because it’s been called out on an EICR

2&3 of above means that there has/should be pre-existing testing done to support whatever replacement and enabling works need to happen along side and (1) above means the customer needs to know that in order to facilitate their request that it may not be just as simple as changing the box.

All three of these scenarios involve testing which means a chargeable service - how you present that to a client is up to you!!
 
- Carry out an EICR on a existing installation
Inform them £150-200 for an EICR (Hi madam/sir “name” your existing installation will require a periodic test to come to a conclusion whether it’s acceptable for a board change or not.

Personally I completely disagree with this approach.
If a customer has asked you to quote for a new CU then give them a quote for a new CU, explain that there may be hidden faults that aren't apparent and cover yourself from that perspective.

I can't see how an EICR is going to tell you whether an installation is 'acceptable for a board change' as you put it?
If a new CU is required then the EICR result is guaranteed to be unsatisfactory now, and if it was satisfactory then you wouldn't be doing a CU change in the first place!


You wouldn't accept a garage charging you for an MOT before they start any work on your car!
 
As above , with everything now having to be RCD protected either Via split RCD or individual RCBO its wise to do some pre-board swap testing. Nothing worse than getting to 5pm and a circuit won't hold in.
I like to start any board change nice and early say around 8am and try to get in on the wall and all connected up before lunch to then allow a nice easy afternoon doing the testing and paperwork.
I rarely insist that an EICR is done prior but if the house is old and if it looks like a shed load of alterations have been added over the years then an EICR is never a bad idea.
Board swaps are pretty much the only job I do 'On Fixed Price' and I would say £800-900 for a basic RCBO board is about right.
Maybe a bit less if its a real basic swap, maybe a bit more if you need new bonding and it means getting a 10mm GY across the house.
 
I can't see how an EICR is going to tell you whether an installation is 'acceptable for a board change' as you put it?
A read through of this old thread, especially your own contributions to it, may help clarify why a thorough test and inspect in advance of a board change is a good idea:

 
Always test install before fitting new CU

I completely agree with this, what I don't agree with is the suggestion that an EICR must be carried out before fitting a new CU.

A read through of this old thread, especially your own contributions to it, may help clarify why a thorough test and inspect in advance of a board change is a good idea:


Testing and a damn good look I completely agree with, but that's not the same as doing an EICR.

To clarify my objection here is to insisting that a customer pay for an EICR prior to having the CU replaced when the inevitable result of the EICR will be a recommendation to replace the CU.
 
Fundamentally there are three reasons for a domestic CU change:

1. Cosmetic - as in, the client just wants an upgrade to be ‘modern’
2. As a result of alterations/existing CU isn’t big enough or doesn’t conform for new works
3. Because it’s been called out on an EICR

2&3 of above means that there has/should be pre-existing testing done to support whatever replacement and enabling works need to happen along side and (1) above means the customer needs to know that in order to facilitate their request that it may not be just as simple as changing the box.

All three of these scenarios involve testing which means a chargeable service - how you present that to a client is up to you!!
Thank you dude
 
I completely agree with this, what I don't agree with is the suggestion that an EICR must be carried out before fitting a new CU.



Testing and a damn good look I completely agree with, but that's not the same as doing an EICR.

To clarify my objection here is to insisting that a customer pay for an EICR prior to having the CU replaced when the inevitable result of the EICR will be a recommendation to replace the CU.
And i totally agree with you....EICR is over the top...
 
I completely agree with this, what I don't agree with is the suggestion that an EICR must be carried out before fitting a new CU.



Testing and a damn good look I completely agree with, but that's not the same as doing an EICR.

To clarify my objection here is to insisting that a customer pay for an EICR prior to having the CU replaced when the inevitable result of the EICR will be a recommendation to replace the
And i totally agree with you....EICR is over the top...
So what you’re saying is you’d chuck yourself in the deep end in a tenants house.

Agree a price to replace the fuseboard, carry out a couple test I.E Like what?? I want to know from your experience what you’d do.

And then replace the CCU, have fault, things tripping. And now with AFDD - ring circuits having high end to ends, open circuit or whichever fault, but main issue causing an arc, and trippage to AFDD

IR values being low - informing tenant/customer he’s now going to require a rewire on XYZ circuit.

Now the customer is going to be ----ed as to why you didn’t inform all of this in the first place.

But no you was trying to make the customer happy in the first place by making your price cheap and getting a bodge job done??

Because an EICR is over the top.


Apologies if above has come across very assertive but this is my thought process on doing things properly unless you can inform and pass information on what you’d do on what you’d think would be a good approach.

Cheers
 
As a seasoned Sparks out in the real world you use your experience. If the house is old , if the wiring accessories look old , if any are broken , if you see signs of damage , evidence of some rough alterations to cables etc. Then you might suggest a full EICR before you start any work like a Board Change.
If its a more modern house say less than 20 years old and everything smells fine and they just want a board change then I would just do some basic tests at the board like some IR tests , Ring continuity tests and then change the Board if all tests up okay.
In 25 years in the trade this method has served me okay
 
As a seasoned Sparks out in the real world you use your experience. If the house is old , if the wiring accessories look old , if any are broken , if you see signs of damage , evidence of some rough alterations to cables etc. Then you might suggest a full EICR before you start any work like a Board Change.
If its a more modern house say less than 20 years old and everything smells fine and they just want a board change then I would just do some basic tests at the board like some IR tests , Ring continuity tests and then change the Board if all tests up okay.
In 25 years in the trade this method has served me okay
100% yours eyes 👁️ are the most important part of any kind of survey/report.
 
So what you’re saying is you’d chuck yourself in the deep end in a tenants house.

Agree a price to replace the fuseboard, carry out a couple test I.E Like what?? I want to know from your experience what you’d do.

And then replace the CCU, have fault, things tripping. And now with AFDD - ring circuits having high end to ends, open circuit or whichever fault, but main issue causing an arc, and trippage to AFDD

IR values being low - informing tenant/customer he’s now going to require a rewire on XYZ circuit.

Now the customer is going to be ----ed as to why you didn’t inform all of this in the first place.

But no you was trying to make the customer happy in the first place by making your price cheap and getting a bodge job done??

Because an EICR is over the top.


Apologies if above has come across very assertive but this is my thought process on doing things properly unless you can inform and pass information on what you’d do on what you’d think would be a good approach.

Cheers
Rubbish, I can only think of 2 faults that could hamper a board change, forget the AFDD nonsense, and as for calling people bogers you cause great offence to your fellow colleagues rant over.
 
When I did my cu changes, most were small domestic properties, and I wouldn’t have got much work charging for a EICR, then quote for cu change. I’d inform on the risks, test old cu few days before, then carry out the new change.

If it were a large property etc, then an EICR would make sense.
 
I generally carry out an EICR first, I think it makes sense to carry out some inspection's as your doing the testing anyway. I bill this as part of the board change though and don't repeat every test after.

The last one I didn't was a pain in the ---, three circuits with low IR and an incomplete neutral on another. It was a large property with a few extensions but looked in good repair.
 
So what you’re saying is you’d chuck yourself in the deep end in a tenants house.
No, I never said that.
Agree a price to replace the fuseboard, carry out a couple test I.E Like what?? I want to know from your experience what you’d do.

No, I would discuss it fully with the customer when visiting to do the quote and at that point have a look at the basics to get a feel for what may or may not be involved.
I would check bonding, approximate age of the installation, obvious signs of DIY.
I'd drop a couple of pendant caps to have a look, have a look at any Outbuildings as they are a prime spot for issues.

My quote will include a line explaining that there may be hidden faults which will be brought to the attention of the customer and discussed.

And then replace the CCU, have fault, things tripping. And now with AFDD - ring circuits having high end to ends, open circuit or whichever fault, but main issue causing an arc, and trippage to AFDD
No, I test the circuits before removing the old CU and find anything that might be an issue before the point of no return.
But I have never yet found anything that can't be resolved, or at least made safe until it can be fully repaired, whilst doing a CU change.
IR values being low - informing tenant/customer he’s now going to require a rewire on XYZ circuit.
That's a ridiculous leap! You've jumped from a low IR value to suddenly needing a rewire?
If there is an unacceptable IR value then I would investigate the cause, not just write it off as needing a rewire!

It's also rare to find an unacceptably low IR.
What is far more common is electrician's who see anything other than a perfect result as being a problem.

Now the customer is going to be ----ed as to why you didn’t inform all of this in the first place.

I think the customer will be annoyed if you do carry out an EICR and then change the CU to find that things are tripping despite your assurance that an EICR will find the issues before you start! One of the common causes of tripping after a CU change is not found by carrying out the standard tests on an EICR, but can usually be found by having a quick look behind the switch at the top of the stairs.

I've never had a customer unhappy with me for any of this, I always take the time to discuss and explain everything.

In my experience it's tradespeople who don't take the time to properly explain what needs to be done, and why, that end up with angry customers.

I've watched another electrician try to explain to a customer the difference between an RCD and an MCB and it was obvious the electrician didn't fully understand what they were talking about so the customer was getting visibly annoyed and you could almost see them losing faith in the electrician.


But no you was trying to make the customer happy in the first place by making your price cheap and getting a bodge job done??

I never try to make customers happy with a cheap price, I keep my customers happy by understanding what they want/need, finding the best way to achieve this and getting it done within their timescales.

I don't generally do bodge jobs, and if I do it is a safe temporary solution to allow a customer to keep their business running until I can get a proper repair in place.


CU replacements are not the major project with constant massive issues that you seem to be making them out to be. Most will go smoothly, some you will find small faults that can be fixed very quickly if you know what you are doing and then every once in a while one will present more of a challenge.

You have to accept that every once in a while a job will go a bit wrong and you won't make as much money on it as you expected, you just have to accept it and still do the job properly. That is the kind of thing that really helps with building a good reputation.


People will happily tell all their friends about the tradesperson who didn't charge any extra despite a job going thoroughly wrong, they also love to talk about the time they got stung with a massive unexpected extras bill.
 
No, I never said that.


No, I would discuss it fully with the customer when visiting to do the quote and at that point have a look at the basics to get a feel for what may or may not be involved.
I would check bonding, approximate age of the installation, obvious signs of DIY.
I'd drop a couple of pendant caps to have a look, have a look at any Outbuildings as they are a prime spot for issues.

My quote will include a line explaining that there may be hidden faults which will be brought to the attention of the customer and discussed.


No, I test the circuits before removing the old CU and find anything that might be an issue before the point of no return.
But I have never yet found anything that can't be resolved, or at least made safe until it can be fully repaired, whilst doing a CU change.

That's a ridiculous leap! You've jumped from a low IR value to suddenly needing a rewire?
If there is an unacceptable IR value then I would investigate the cause, not just write it off as needing a rewire!

It's also rare to find an unacceptably low IR.
What is far more common is electrician's who see anything other than a perfect result as being a problem.



I think the customer will be annoyed if you do carry out an EICR and then change the CU to find that things are tripping despite your assurance that an EICR will find the issues before you start! One of the common causes of tripping after a CU change is not found by carrying out the standard tests on an EICR, but can usually be found by having a quick look behind the switch at the top of the stairs.

I've never had a customer unhappy with me for any of this, I always take the time to discuss and explain everything.

In my experience it's tradespeople who don't take the time to properly explain what needs to be done, and why, that end up with angry customers.

I've watched another electrician try to explain to a customer the difference between an RCD and an MCB and it was obvious the electrician didn't fully understand what they were talking about so the customer was getting visibly annoyed and you could almost see them losing faith in the electrician.




I never try to make customers happy with a cheap price, I keep my customers happy by understanding what they want/need, finding the best way to achieve this and getting it done within their timescales.

I don't generally do bodge jobs, and if I do it is a safe temporary solution to allow a customer to keep their business running until I can get a proper repair in place.


CU replacements are not the major project with constant massive issues that you seem to be making them out to be. Most will go smoothly, some you will find small faults that can be fixed very quickly if you know what you are doing and then every once in a while one will present more of a challenge.

You have to accept that every once in a while a job will go a bit wrong and you won't make as much money on it as you expected, you just have to accept it and still do the job properly. That is the kind of thing that really helps with building a good reputation.


People will happily tell all their friends about the tradesperson who didn't charge any extra despite a job going thoroughly wrong, they also love to talk about the time they got stung with a massive unexpected extras bill.
This has to got to win the prize for the most level headed reasoning reply to a potentially inflammatory post I've ever read.
 

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