Discuss Getting DNO to provide an earth... What are my chances? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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DNS1

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1,054
The missus' parents asked me to pop over and sort a nuisance trip problem the other week. Solved it with a new RCD, but noticed that the system was a TT, protected by a knackered VOELCB.

Said to them I'd have to come back and put an RCD over the whole system, but was then wondering whether the DNO would just upgrade it to PME if I asked.

It's an overhead supply, but the house isn't exactly out in the sticks... It's in a fairly large village about 3 miles from Oxford.

I've heard people say that in some areas the DNO will happily upgrade the supply on request. What does everyone think my chances are?
 

sparks1973

Regular EF Member
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in a word..crap!...best you`l get out of them is `well come and do it but we want cash for it`...just RCD the whole install...is there a garage with supply to it here as well?
 
S

Spazz

The DNO have a legal responsibility to provide an earth unless you are on a TT system.

If you are on a TT and cant get a stable earth then the DNO must come out and change you to PME or TN-S by law!
 
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D

DNS1

Electrician's Arms
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1,054
Thanks chaps...

Earth is currently fine for a TT, so looks like I'll just stick an RCD on the whole system.
 

sparks1973

Regular EF Member
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The DNO have a legal responsibility to provide an earth unless you are on a TT system.

If you are on a TT and cant get a stable earth then the DNO must come out and change you to PME or TN-S by law!
no they dont....they have a legal obligation to maintain an earthing arrangement using their aperatus..thats all....they DONT have a legal obligation to just provide you with an earth....lol....
 
E

Engineer54

If the overhead supply has been PME'd then you stand a very good chance that the local DNO will supply you with a PME connection. Generally it's always been free of charge, It's only been relatively recent that some supply companies have been charging for this connection. Even if they do charge, (as i say most Don't) it's money well spent....

A PME connection is always going to be far better than a standard UK TT installation relying totally on a single RCD for your earth fault protection. So make the call to the DNO and ask if that connection is available. Let's face it, if you don't at least ask, you won't know and you won't get!!!

I can't understand why anybody would advise you not to bother inquiring!!!!
 
P

Plonker 3

If the overhead supply has been PME'd then you stand a very good chance that the local DNO will supply you with a PME connection. Generally it's always been free of charge, It's only been relatively recent that some supply companies have been charging for this connection. Even if they do charge, (as i say most Don't) it's money well spent....

A PME connection is always going to be far better than a standard UK TT installation relying totally on a single RCD for your earth fault protection. So make the call to the DNO and ask if that connection is available. Let's face it, if you don't at least ask, you won't know and you won't get!!!

I can't understand why anybody would advise you not to bother inquiring!!!!

If only, got to change the girlfriends parents DB, went to look the other day only earthed via the water pipe. Rang western power who cahrge £119 plus vat to fit a PME :rant:
 
D

drew35

I've never been refused yet, I think a lot of people just like to DNO bash. Its as simple as dialling a number and asking them to do it, could be £35+vat, could be £119+vat. Their as hard up as the rest of us so they tend to charge now when once they didn't. No harm in a phone call, or a site visit.
 
1

1shortcircuit

Just arranged a PME upgrade for a client of my own. The DNO want to charge a hundred and something odd quid but like I mentioned to the client, it's worth every penny as their system is maintained and more reliable than the current earthing arrangement that is being used.

Not too sure about the 77 quid that they want to fit an isolator though, seems a bit steep to me???

Current earth is a 2.5mm length of cable going out through the wall to a piece of bent over copper tube, I sh*t you not. No clamps, just wrapped around the pipe in the flower bed and gas/water pipes in the house. (Blue/Brown T&E)
 

Amp David

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Glossop
My recent DNO visit resulted in them supplying and earth at a property that has never had one from the day electric was taken to the property. No earth rod anywhere either.

No charge, just said they'd replace old service head and supply an earth.
 

Rob Smith 643

Regular EF Member
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Location
Sunderland
Just arranged a PME upgrade for a client of my own. The DNO want to charge a hundred and something odd quid but like I mentioned to the client, it's worth every penny as their system is maintained and more reliable than the current earthing arrangement that is being used.

Not too sure about the 77 quid that they want to fit an isolator though, seems a bit steep to me???

Current earth is a 2.5mm length of cable going out through the wall to a piece of bent over copper tube, I sh*t you not. No clamps, just wrapped around the pipe in the flower bed and gas/water pipes in the house. (Blue/Brown T&E)
Interested to know what readings you got for pfc etc?
 

sparks1973

Regular EF Member
Messages
1,027
Location
Leeds
If the overhead supply has been PME'd then you stand a very good chance that the local DNO will supply you with a PME connection. Generally it's always been free of charge, It's only been relatively recent that some supply companies have been charging for this connection. Even if they do charge, (as i say most Don't) it's money well spent....

A PME connection is always going to be far better than a standard UK TT installation relying totally on a single RCD for your earth fault protection. So make the call to the DNO and ask if that connection is available. Let's face it, if you don't at least ask, you won't know and you won't get!!!

I can't understand why anybody would advise you not to bother inquiring!!!!
and who advised anyone against trying their hand with the DNO eh?..
 

sparks1973

Regular EF Member
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1,027
Location
Leeds
My recent DNO visit resulted in them supplying and earth at a property that has never had one from the day electric was taken to the property. No earth rod anywhere either.

No charge, just said they'd replace old service head and supply an earth.
well arn`t you the spawny one then.....as believe me they usually will charge....or attempt to fob you off over the phone...lol...,
 
E

Engineer54

and who advised anyone against trying their hand with the DNO eh?..
Depends on what you mean by stating ''in a word..crap!..''

Oh, and just because your local area DNO charge, doesn't mean that ALL the DNO's charge for providing a PME connection, as there are many that Don't!!!
 

sparks1973

Regular EF Member
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1,027
Location
Leeds
Depends on what you mean by stating ''in a word..crap!..''

Oh, and just because your local area DNO charge, doesn't mean that ALL the DNO's charge for providing a PME connection, as there are many that Don't!!!
either way.....i never said not to try...did I??!!
 

oldtimer

Regular EF Member
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4,313
Location
Edinburgh
The DNO have a legal responsibility to provide an earth unless you are on a TT system.

If you are on a TT and cant get a stable earth then the DNO must come out and change you to PME or TN-S by law!
Nicholas they dont have to supply and earth and also they just fought off a lobby from the Electrical Safety Council not to fit a intergrated or seperate isolator for smart meters in other words if its going to cost then they aint doing it but they will do it for a charge
you can thank the current government for the isolators they thought it would be too much cost on the poor DNO

Forgot to add that they are only legally obliged to maintain an existing earth and if you see a earth clamp on a sheath then thats questionable or chargeable
 

sparks1973

Regular EF Member
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1,027
Location
Leeds
Don't know, but when you follow-up with a statement like ''just RCD the whole install'' it all depends how the reader construes your meaning.
My point was eng...keep it on a TT...RCD in place of the old voltage trip....we have done this before ...christ...we even kept the BS3036 board as it was good for continued service)....so then you have your fault protection dont you.....and it hasn`t lined the pockets of the DNO!!....
 
E

Engineer54

My point was eng...keep it on a TT...RCD in place of the old voltage trip....we have done this before ...christ...we even kept the BS3036 board as it was good for continued service)....so then you have your fault protection dont you.....and it hasn`t lined the pockets of the DNO!!....
Fir enough!! To be honest i wasn't sure what you were saying, which is why i didn't quote you. But it does seem possible that the OP took your meaning as, not to bother from his next post!!

Personally, if the opportunity was there for a PME connection, i would certainly take it, whether it was charged or not. Not that i think 100 quid + vat is ethical or right, it's not!! Your all paying a standard quarterly charge on every electric bill, which should cover any such conversions on the service side, including provision of safety isolators too... Just think of the revenue each service cut-out/meter position generates for the DNO's over say 20 to 50+ years, .....A staggering amount!!
 

sparks1973

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Leeds
Fir enough!! To be honest i wasn't sure what you were saying, which is why i didn't quote you. But it does seem possible that the OP took your meaning as, not to bother from his next post!!

Personally, if the opportunity was there for a PME connection, i would certainly take it, whether it was charged or not. Not that i think 100 quid + vat is ethical or right, it's not!! Your all paying a standard quarterly charge on every electric bill, which should cover any such conversions on the service side, including provision of safety isolators too... Just think of the revenue each service cut-out/meter position generates for the DNO's over say 20 to 50+ years, .....A staggering amount!!
look eng, i`m of the same frame of mind as you when it comes to tt-Vs-pme...but its an additional cost that can be counted out for customers in this frugal time....i mean lets face it.....you would have to RCD final circuits anyway for use in a domestic scenario....so as an RCD can provide fault protection for TT... ...then i just see PME as an unnecessary raid on peoples wallet/purse at the mo` by hungry DNOs....
the only thing i will say though is RCDs are still not as reliable as MCBs.....
 

Guitarist

Regular EF Member
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5,250
Location
Norfolk
Just had my in-laws overhead changed from TT to PME free of charge by UKPN. Great guys who even got the overhead uninsulated cables to the cottage replaced with a single, also free of charge.
Ze now of 0.33 so I'm very happy :)

My advice is to give it a go and enquire... You might be pleasantly surprised.
 

sparks1973

Regular EF Member
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1,027
Location
Leeds
just make sure they dont do what these numptys did at a place i looked at a while back.....left an unused cable connected to the overhead just clipped direct to the outside wall...and just cropped off about 8" from the ground...lol...
 
E

Engineer54

just make sure they dont do what these numptys did at a place i looked at a while back.....left an unused cable connected to the overhead just clipped direct to the outside wall...and just cropped off about 8" from the ground...lol...

Who would complain about a source of free leccy?? lol!!
 
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