Good Practice.

[westward10]

On this forum this week someone stated it was good practice to fit cpcs from front plates to back boxes. Not getting into a debate over this cos we all know, or should know when this is or isn't required. I have never done this unless it is a requirement, so for someone to state that fitting a non required cpc is good practice almost infers that my methods are bad practice although totally compliant. Fine, if you want to fit cpcs that is your choice but don't harp on about it being good practice.
Feel better now.

 

[Pat H]

That would have been my comment and it was mentioned only once so not really harping on.
It was how I was taught on my course and it was ststed there as good practice. I think I made that clear but if I didn't then hopefully it is now. Not my view but what I was taught. The explanation given was that "others" may not know when a CPC should be used or could be used and not fitting one "could" give rise to questions and explanations.
I appreciate if you fit hundreds of sockets a day using non floating mounting lugs then it makes sense to be economical with time and resources, If you fit far less then why not add a cpc to the back box even on a fixed lug box?
My personal view is even with a fixed lug back box and no cpc fitted a small risk exists of the socket is removed while live of a cut or damaged wire touching the back box. With the cpc fitted the worst you get is a bang. But that my view and based on what I was taught I chose to do that.
There have been similar discussions about fitting plate switches in bathrooms that meet regs but being more trouble than they are worth as they raise questions by others not so across the actual regulations.

 

[hightower]

To me it all comes to dumbing it down too much. People shouldn't be fiddling when they don't have a clue, and when they do have a clue they'll remove the socket front in a safe manner.

Surely adding these linking cpcs for the sake of an incompetent diyer that might not safely isolate is promoting poor diy work?

 

[Pat H]

Making safer for a diyer is poor practice? Is the plan to kill off all the diyers?
Of course that aknowledges that even if not a compliance requirement it is safer.
I see compliance as a minimum level of requirement not a maximum.
But of course there is no requirement for anything more than compliance. Anything more is about personal safisfaction and considerations.

 

[westward10]

Making safer for a diyer is poor practice? Is the plan to kill off all the diyers?
Of course that aknowledges that even if not a compliance requirement it is safer.
I see compliance as a minimum level of requirement not a maximum.
But of course there is no requirement for anything more than compliance. Anything more is about personal safisfaction and considerations.

Couldn't remember who quoted it and I don't have a problem with those who choose to do so, it is the "good practice" statement implying that not to do so is bad practice.

 

[Pat H]

Ah well I can't recall the guy who taught me and it was his choice of words. Maybe not an ideal or accurate choice but when teaching I appeciate they are trying to aim high. On the assumption that post course many will slip back. A lot of stuff was well beyond what I see day to day.
So for clarity I'd agree its not bad practice to not fit a cpc where not required.

 

[mattg4321]

Bottom line is the DIYers shouldn't touch what they don't understand/have the correct equipment for.

You can't legislate for idiots.

 

[Pat H]

You can legislate but we chose not to. Gas has legislation in place.
But you can take steps to be as safe for them as you can readonably be.

 

[valleybilly]

on a job some time ago n they earthed the back boxes direct with 2x ring earth wires & relied on the face plate screws to earth the sockets the mind boggles

 

[westward10]

Ah well I can't recall the guy who taught me and it was his choice of words. Maybe not an ideal or accurate choice but when teaching I appeciate they are trying to aim high. On the assumption that post course many will slip back. A lot of stuff was well beyond what I see day to day.
So for clarity I'd agree its not bad practice to not fit a cpc where not required.

What is aiming high about it, how does it make it any safer.

 

[andyb]

Are we talking metal accessories here?
My take is I always earth metal switches and sockets, they're exposed conductive parts and must be earthed.
Or are we talking about earthing back boxes with plastic accessories?
In which case I rely on the screw with a solid lug.

Can't tell you much about good practice though.

 

[Pat H]

To aim higher is to a shooting term. A bullet will lose height as it travels so for a long distance you 'aim higher" to compensate.
In teaching you may well teach above the required level in the hope over time your students will drop to the required level.

 

[westward10]

Are we talking metal accessories here?
My take is I always earth metal switches and sockets, they're exposed conductive parts and must be earthed.
Or are we talking about earthing back boxes with plastic accessories?
In which case I rely on the screw with a solid lug.

Can't tell you much about good practice though.

Makes no difference whether surface or not, it wouldn't be required, but again it is a personal preference.

 

[andyb]

Makes no difference whether surface or not, it wouldn't be required, but again it is a personal preference.

There is a difference.
Would you earth a back box and rely on the screw to run the earth to a socket?

 

[7029 dave]

On this forum this week someone stated it was good practice to fit cpcs from front plates to back boxes. Not getting into a debate over this cos we all know, or should know when this is or isn't required. I have never done this unless it is a requirement, so for someone to state that fitting a non required cpc is good practice almost infers that my methods are bad practice although totally compliant. Fine, if you want to fit cpcs that is your choice but don't harp on about it being good practice.
Feel better now.

Yeah it was so 90's.

 

[westward10]

There is a difference.
Would you earth a back box and rely on the screw to run the earth to a socket?

I only earth the front plate, but I have no problem with those who earth both. It was the good practice bit that I saw red with.

 

[andyb]

I only earth the front plate, but I have no problem with those who earth both. It was the good practice bit that I saw red with.

I see, I agree with that.

 

[Midwest]

Found this from last year Westward, and some have used the term 'Best Practise';

Earthing a back box - http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/earthing-a-back-box.106636/

Now I'm one of those that use fly leads, I even sometimes add them to an existing install, if replacing the front plates for example. Not sure I would be so bold to use the term myself, cos it suggest it's from some form of guidelines or teaching.

Interesting point about Guidance Notes, as opposed to the gospel as is BS7671.

PS I did think of posting on that old thread, but that would be just stirring things

 

[westward10]

Found this from last year Westward, and some have used the term 'Best Practise';

Earthing a back box - http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/earthing-a-back-box.106636/

Now I'm one of those that use fly leads, I even sometimes add them to an existing install, if replacing the front plates for example. Not sure I would be so bold to use the term myself, cos it suggest it's from some form of guidelines or teaching.

Interesting point about Guidance Notes, as opposed to the gospel as is BS7671.

PS I did think of posting on that old thread, but that would be just stirring things

Just had a look through the old thread seems an age old argument.

 

[Barry White]

I don't have a problem with either method just dont twist the cpc's all together and then cover in sleeving?