Discuss Haphazard lighting layout. in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

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ash2020

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Hi guys. In an ideal world, the lighting circuit would be as in the drawings, feed into the pattress or fitting, cable off to the switch and loop on to the next fitting.
However, is there anything to stop you running the feed into the switch box, connecting the neutrals in a connector and then running on to the light fitting? Or, for that matter, doing it all in a 20A box stuffed into the studwork and then looping on to the next light from there?
What about a mixture of all of the above in the same circuit?
Obviously I'm assuming its all drawn up and documented and all lives are brown sleeved etc. and everything buried is RCD protected.
The reason I'm asking is that so many light fittings now have no room in them for more than 3 wires and its much easier to run a single switched t&e to a fitting than one to it and another from it.
Sorry if its a bit obvious for those of you with loads of experience.
Any 17th refs you could point me to?
Cheers
Andy
 
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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
I understand your problem with some fittings. I do on some occassions take the neutrals to the switch box, if its a stud wall with the 25mm deep fast a fix boxes. But its a NO to using a joint box and stuffing it in the studwork outta sight.

Mark
 
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Mike P

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  • #3
Hi Ash.
I often come across this in new build and also over the last ten years.
I think its a good idea it makes fault finding easy and as you say not to much clutter in the rose. The only thing is you need deep switch boxes.
 
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PAUL M

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  • #4
i sometimes wire my lights in the 2 plate method(singles)but i dont take the neutral to the switch just take one to the rose.
 
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  • #5
i sometimes wire my lights in the 2 plate method(singles)but i dont take the neutral to the switch just take one to the rose.
1 neutral to the rose? I dont get it mate?

Mark

unless its only 1 light
 
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heathelect

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  • #6
3 plating at switch with a deep box is a great idea, i do it regularily so leaving one twin at light or two if multiple lights, but regarding joint boxes in a wall or stud NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO, ALL JOINT BOXES SHOULD BE ACCESSIBLE, hope that helps dave
 
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ash2020

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  • #7
Thanks for such informative comments. I can see that you shouldn't bury a box where it can't be got at. What about under the floorboards?
I've got a case where I've got the upstairs floor up, got 3 cables to join, can't do it in the light fitting, what do I do?
Is there a permanent way of jointing, that doesn't have screw terminals?
 
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Mike P

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  • #8
They say only crimp or similar where joints are inaccesable, But the number of times I have found these to cause problems when fault finding. Why don't you drop the cables into a high single box on the wall and make your join in that at least you get a good screw connection and it's accessable
 
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ash2020

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  • #9
Cheers Mike. unfortunately the cables are all above the ceiling and there isn't room in the new light fitting. I can easily access them by lifting the upstairs floorboards, which can be screwed back down.
I agree about crimps though, never found them totally reliable.
 
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ash2020

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  • #11
If a junction box won't do then sure as hell choc-bloc won't. Speaking of which, I do wish I'd invented it!
 
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Mike P

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  • #12
Hi Dragon. A bit like a junction box then!!
 
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Carter

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  • #13
Nothing wrong with having neutrals at a switch box, so why doesn't a manufacturer turn out a switch box with a simple neutral 'commoning' terminal in the bottom? Not so much for original installation but I can see plenty of scenarios where the facility could be useful/tidy. Er...ooh b0lx! I think I've just blown any design rights!
 
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Dinosaur

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  • #14
There are 'maintenance free' junction boxes around now. Not used them myself but know people who have and they are getting good reviews. Or use a 4 point 6 amp connector under the floor boards and mark the boards with its posistion and manufacture an access hatch. 4 point connector can be used exactly the same as a 3 point cieling rose.
 
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heathelect

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  • #15
there are 'maintenance free' junction boxes around now. Not used them myself but know people who have and they are getting good reviews. Or use a 4 point 6 amp connector under the floor boards and mark the boards with its posistion and manufacture an access hatch. 4 point connector can be used exactly the same as a 3 point cieling rose.

dinosaur thats okay but what about the carpet ? Wouldnt you need to cut that also to make it easily accessible !!!!
 
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Jurassic Spark

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  • #16
In my last 5 rewires, I've started running live & neutrals to each switch position into deep switch/socket boxes and looping to each switch position. With this method, you only have one twin cable at the light position.

The neutrals are connected using Wago push fit connectors which incidentally, you can use for inaccessible connections provided they're within an enclosure which has provision for anchoring the cables.
 

jeremy

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Mentor
Arms
i have seen push fit connector blocks which apparently do not need to be accessible but if you have a good pair of ratchet crimps and individually amalgamate tape each joint to disallow moisture ingress and movement( having pulled each joint to test for fastness), I see nothing wrong with this, though I'm not in charge and i'm sure I'll be corrected
 
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Dinosaur

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  • #19
dinosaur thats okay but what about the carpet ? Wouldnt you need to cut that also to make it easily accessible !!!!
Got access panels under my carpets noone has ever complained or said it cant be done. Like Shakey asked a couple of months ago - what is the definition of accessable?

You can roll a carpet back you cant roll sodding chipboard sheets back!!!!!
 
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Mike P

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  • #20
Try This it's a super rod product (i know it should come under tools but it's relevant to this thread.

Mike.

Super Rod Limited
 
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heathelect

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  • #21
Try This it's a super rod product (i know it should come under tools but it's relevant to this thread.

Mike.

Super Rod Limited
hiya ive just seen these tonight in the wholesalers £60 +VAT IS THAT A GOOD PRICE are they easy to use, and do you find it cost effective ? dave
 
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Mike P

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  • #22
If it's the same product then yes. It comes in a case with all the bits and think of the time saved trying to lift boards etc
 
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ash2020

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  • #23
Just bought some Ashley non maintenance junction boxes - they're brilliant, very quick push fit and loads of room in them. I'm not going to use anything else from now on.
 
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  • #24
Just bought some Ashley non maintenance junction boxes - they're brilliant, very quick push fit and loads of room in them. I'm not going to use anything else from now on.
Seen them at £3.40 + vat (seems expensive) how much did you pay?

Mark
 
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ash2020

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  • #25
32A were £2.20 - 20A were £2.50 from BEW Distributors. But I think they are the only ones that are 17th compliant.
 

Had8Lives

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Arms
Think you can get dryline junction boxes which you can fit in the ceiling and then screw the rose/fitting to it. That way the wires are accessible but not actually in the light fitting.
 
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