Heat pump installers

[barninks]

Hello

After some reading recently, I was interested in installing Air Source Heat Pumps, as I think they are a great replacement for a gas boiler. From what i can see a GSHP is even more efficient but a bit more expensive and disruptive.
After a bit of research I realised that you need to be registered with MCS certification, if that is correct?

So before spending money on getting certified etc, i was just interested if any installers of heat pumps could give me some information on the sort of money there is in the industry?
For example - what would an installer charge to install a typical 4kw ASHP? And how long would it typically take to install one?
I understand that these sort of questions pop up a lot and can be hard to answer - as it is dependant on the size etc, but I would just be interested in an installer telling me a little about what its like.

Thanks

 

[suffolkspark]

I personally dont like them at all, I like to get in from work in the winter, whack the oil heating on and wait 5 minutes before the radiators singe my bum. Been working on new builds and the heating all got commissioned yesterday. 2 hours after switch on the radiators were only luke warm! I like heat heat heat!

I know the overall efficiency takes into account that they run pretty much 24/7 to keep the heat gently where its wanted, but that means keeping your house warm while your at work all day as the pickup time is so slow, an oil boiler has a quick bam for 30 minutes and my house is hot for the evening, each to their own I guess but I dont think they are the way forward personally. Also. Dont fit Daiken. Heard reliably from within Daiken there are problems with their current breed of outdoor units whereby they are failing before their 5 year warranty even runs out.

 

[barninks]

I personally dont like them at all, I like to get in from work in the winter, whack the oil heating on and wait 5 minutes before the radiators singe my bum. Been working on new builds and the heating all got commissioned yesterday. 2 hours after switch on the radiators were only luke warm! I like heat heat heat!

I know the overall efficiency takes into account that they run pretty much 24/7 to keep the heat gently where its wanted, but that means keeping your house warm while your at work all day as the pickup time is so slow, an oil boiler has a quick bam for 30 minutes and my house is hot for the evening, each to their own I guess but I dont think they are the way forward personally. Also. Dont fit Daiken. Heard reliably from within Daiken there are problems with their current breed of outdoor units whereby they are failing before their 5 year warranty even runs out.

Yes, ok, some interesting points you raise. Of course, you would turn the radiators on because your house was below the temperature you would like it at. I suppose a more constant ambient temperature would mean that when you get home your house would be slightly warmer than it currently is...
Thanks for the information

 

[Zerax]

I have no experience of installing or running ASHP or GSHP systems... but have researched them for possible use.

From what I have read, a major factor is the design of the house and the system... retrofitting into older houses in unlikely to work well. These systems really need to be heating air or UFH... if you must use radiators they need to be far larger with increased flow, which is far from ideal. A key design aspect is the insulation level and air tightness of the house. Use of a MVHR system to aid ventilation and heat retention is also part of the equation.

So... to try to answer the OPs original question... from my understanding of the market so far... for quality systems that work properly... it's really new builds only. One of the problems with the mass produced housing in the UK right now is they are all built to the very lowest level of building regulations... so you're also looking at quality new builds.

I know there's been quite few programmes for retro-fitting these systems in social housing... and I've read about all sorts of issues with them.

 

[barninks]

I have no experience of installing or running ASHP or GSHP systems... but have researched them for possible use.

From what I have read, a major factor is the design of the house and the system... retrofitting into older houses in unlikely to work well. These systems really need to be heating air or UFH... if you must use radiators they need to be far larger with increased flow, which is far from ideal. A key design aspect is the insulation level and air tightness of the house. Use of a MVHR system to aid ventilation and heat retention is also part of the equation.

So... to try to answer the OPs original question... from my understanding of the market so far... for quality systems that work properly... it's really new builds only. One of the problems with the mass produced housing in the UK right now is they are all built to the very lowest level of building regulations... so you're also looking at quality new builds.

I know there's been quite few programmes for retro-fitting these systems in social housing... and I've read about all sorts of issues with them.

Yes ok. That is helpful.
Yes I mainly work on new builds and complete rebuilds - and yes i agree that the house has got to be very efficient for them to be effective.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Simon47]

You don't need to be registered to install them - but if it's not done (or at least, signed off) by an MCS certified installer then you won't get your RHIs (Renewable Heat Incentives). RHIs are designed to incentivise installation of renewable heat sources by paying you an annual incentive based on the capacity and type of system installed.
We looked into that at church, the rules are different for domestic and non-domestic properties. For domestic, you get a flat rate based on the capacity of the system, for non-domestic the heat has to be metered - apparently a lot of the heat pump units include inbuilt "metering" for this purpose. We wouldn't qualify at church as the loft isn't sufficiently insulated yet, and there's no double glazing (not a trivial matter with a listed building, and where the huge east end window is some rather nice stained glass !

We have some friends in a housing association flat. They've recently been swapped from storage heaters to heat pumps and radiators. Not exactly new builds, but also not old - I'd guess around 1980s or 90s. I think they've been quite happy with it - apart from condensation in the unheated (and probably uninsulated) porch, and squeaky floors where they took them up to get the plumbing in.

Something else to be aware of is that older designs of heat pump lost efficiency as the outside temperature dropped - some of them would stop pumping and turn on an immersion heater as direct electrical heating became more efficient The one we had suggested for church had surprisingly good specs and IIRC kept efficiency up down to something like -15˚C outside. Water supply temperature also has a large effect on efficiency - basically, the lower the difference between outside air and inside, the better the performance. As suggested, they work best with a nice slab of concrete floor to keep warm - or an over-sized radiator so it can run at low temperature.