Help on Faulty Electrics

[actresskat]

Hi, We had to move out of our flat (due to relocation of work) and now we have tenants in our flat. The tenants think there's faulty electrics as they replace, on average, two halogen bulbs a week all around our flat and we had a similar problem when we were there (but couldn't say how many as we didn't think too much about it). They've even had one incident where a bulb in the bathroom went, they went downstairs to replace it only to find it had come back on and was working again.

They also report that the hallway lighting, exterior of the flat is regularly off - at least twice a week, only to be fixed by the maintenance company and they're starting to wonder if there's a connection.


Could there be an integral problem with the whole buildings electricity? Is there any way an electrician would be able to diagnose whether the problem is isolated to our flat i.e. after the consumer unit or linked in any way to the exterior electrics in the rest of the building? I understand, from what an electrician friend said last time, that the nature of there being motion sensors in the hallway rather than switches would cause them to blow more frequently...but would it really cause 2 bulbs to blow a week, in any room of our flat, including those with regular switches? Also could an underlying electrical problem cause a fridge to break and hob to go wrong? So far we've replaced two hallway motion sensors, the fridge stopped working, the dishwasher has been fixed twice after throwing up errors, there was a flame under the glass hob so they turned it off and that got fixed - could these kitchen problems also be related to electrics?

 

[Marvo]

It could be a problem with the lighting circuit, it could also be a problem with the building supply. Finally it might just be a problem with the ceramic plug (lamp holders) on certain light fittings.

Impossible to tell without the correct test equipment and the knowledge to correctly interpret the test results.

If you really want to investigate yourself you could go to a wholesaler and buy a few ceramic lamp holders and change the worst culprits like for like with the power isolated at the CU. iIf this doesn't work then you'll need to call a sparky to sort it out.

 

[oldtimer]

Ok first of all it sounds like you have a lot of these ie how many also are they the GU10 type or the low voltage LV has 2 needle type pins and the GU10,s has 2 cap type pins on the top.

I do work for a letting agent and I get this a lot and the majority of the time is that if these lights are fitted all over the flat the tenant reports that 2 or 3 lamps are popping in a week my findins are that the first 2 or 3 are ignored then another 2 or 3 go then the tenant has to go out and buy a pile of them. So whats doing it.

Well in my view these bulbs/lamps are manufactured with a tight tolerance with regards to lifespan ie if a lamp says 2000 hours then basically thats what you will get so say you have a room with say 10 light fittings all of the bulbs get put in at the same time and if they are all switched on and of at the same time then it is no surprise they all start to pop a day or 2 after each other this is more relivent on these track fitting you buy with 3 or 4 bulbs on them I got a call from my daughter who said 2 bulbs popped within days of each other .

One other thing if they are GU10,s then when they pop they tend to trip the the circuit breaker

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It could be a problem with the lighting circuit, it could also be a problem with the building supply. Finally it might just be a problem with the ceramic plug (lamp holders) on certain light fittings.

Impossible to tell without the correct test equipment and the knowledge to correctly interpret the test results.

If you really want to investigate yourself you could go to a wholesaler and buy a few ceramic lamp holders and change the worst culprits like for like with the power isolated at the CU. iIf this doesn't work then you'll need to call a sparky to sort it out.

yep...you certainly cant count out lampholders Marvo....was at a small job today.....tennant complaining the lamp kept going off whenever the youngsters were jumping around upstairs.......was the bayonet lampholder....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Ok first of all it sounds like you have a lot of these ie how many also are they the GU10 type or the low voltage LV has 2 needle type pins and the GU10,s has 2 cap type pins on the top.

I do work for a letting agent and I get this a lot and the majority of the time is that if these lights are fitted all over the flat the tenant reports that 2 or 3 lamps are popping in a week my findins are that the first 2 or 3 are ignored then another 2 or 3 go then the tenant has to go out and buy a pile of them. So whats doing it.

Well in my view these bulbs/lamps are manufactured with a tight tolerance with regards to lifespan ie if a lamp says 2000 hours then basically thats what you will get so say you have a room with say 10 light fittings all of the bulbs get put in at the same time and if they are all switched on and of at the same time then it is no surprise they all start to pop a day or 2 after each other this is more relivent on these track fitting you buy with 3 or 4 bulbs on them I got a call from my daughter who said 2 bulbs popped within days of each other .

One other thing if they are GU10,s then when they pop they tend to trip the the circuit breaker

often the case that their padded round with the insulation n all.....

 

[D80]

What brand of lamps are they using? The cheap makes tend to not last very long at all, and lifespan could be measured in minutes rather than hours.

With regards to the bathroom light, its most likely the lampholder that's at fault.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Ok first of all it sounds like you have a lot of these ie how many also are they the GU10 type or the low voltage LV has 2 needle type pins and the GU10,s has 2 cap type pins on the top.

I do work for a letting agent and I get this a lot and the majority of the time is that if these lights are fitted all over the flat the tenant reports that 2 or 3 lamps are popping in a week my findins are that the first 2 or 3 are ignored then another 2 or 3 go then the tenant has to go out and buy a pile of them. So whats doing it.

Well in my view these bulbs/lamps are manufactured with a tight tolerance with regards to lifespan ie if a lamp says 2000 hours then basically thats what you will get so say you have a room with say 10 light fittings all of the bulbs get put in at the same time and if they are all switched on and of at the same time then it is no surprise they all start to pop a day or 2 after each other this is more relivent on these track fitting you buy with 3 or 4 bulbs on them I got a call from my daughter who said 2 bulbs popped within days of each other .

One other thing if they are GU10,s then when they pop they tend to trip the the circuit breaker

Have yet to see these lamps giving the specified number of hours. Maybe it's the lamps that are supplied but>>

downlighters are a contentious issue with differing opinions especially MR16 vs GU10.

My opinion, based on my house which is mostly all wired in MR16 is this..

They're great. but all mine are wired on soft start dimmers. In 5 or so years I have never changed a lamp. I can dim them to get the lovely yellow light from a GU10, or turn them up bright.

They are all 35w dichroic.

I can't offer any more than this. This is what I have, This is what I recommend other than LED.

I have no experience of the range of colour temp available or dimmable possibilities of LED.

I love the leccy saving thought though.

 

[actresskat]

Ok first of all it sounds like you have a lot of these ie how many also are they the GU10 type or the low voltage LV has 2 needle type pins and the GU10,s has 2 cap type pins on the top.

I do work for a letting agent and I get this a lot and the majority of the time is that if these lights are fitted all over the flat the tenant reports that 2 or 3 lamps are popping in a week my findins are that the first 2 or 3 are ignored then another 2 or 3 go then the tenant has to go out and buy a pile of them. So whats doing it.

Well in my view these bulbs/lamps are manufactured with a tight tolerance with regards to lifespan ie if a lamp says 2000 hours then basically thats what you will get so say you have a room with say 10 light fittings all of the bulbs get put in at the same time and if they are all switched on and of at the same time then it is no surprise they all start to pop a day or 2 after each other this is more relivent on these track fitting you buy with 3 or 4 bulbs on them I got a call from my daughter who said 2 bulbs popped within days of each other .

One other thing if they are GU10,s then when they pop they tend to trip the the circuit breaker

Yes, indeed we have a LOT of GU10s in our flat. Downstairs lounge has around 10, kitchen 6-8 etc. In terms of brand we pick a mid-priced Philips or General Electric (GE). We tried energy savings in the fittings although the intensity of light wasn't bright enough for the space (double-height ceiling in the lounge - split level). We lived in the property for 8 months and I'd estimate we got through around 30 bulbs in that time along with replacing two busted motion sensors in the halls. 2 bulbs a week sounds pretty steep but I wouldn't think the tenants are over-estimating.

 

[D80]

Have yet to see these lamps giving the specified number of hours. Maybe it's the lamps that are supplied but>>

downlighters are a contentious issue with differing opinions especially MR16 vs GU10.

My opinion, based on my house which is mostly all wired in MR16 is this..

They're great. but all mine are wired on soft start dimmers. In 5 or so years I have never changed a lamp. I can dim them to get the lovely yellow light from a GU10, or turn them up bright.

They are all 35w dichroic.

I can't offer any more than this. This is what I have, This is what I recommend other than LED.

I have no experience of the range of colour temp available or dimmable possibilities of LED.

I love the leccy saving thought though.

If using halogens a soft start dimmer works wonders for the lamps, before I changed all of the house to LED's that's what I had and likewise never had to replace a single lamp.

I've now got a mountain of 2nd hand dimmers as when the LED's go in, they come out.

 

[actresskat]

Thank you everyone for your responses - they've been invaluable. I wasn't sure if it was normal for so many halogens to blow all the time. I think we'll look into the soft start dimmers. If anyone has any other tips on how to rectify or ease this problem then please let us know.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

If using halogens a soft start dimmer works wonders for the lamps, before I changed all of the house to LED's that's what I had and likewise never had to replace a single lamp.

I've now got a mountain of 2nd hand dimmers as when the LED's go in, they come out.

Thanks dude, just seems a shame that no-one else has shared my views on this solution to lamp failure on MR16. They just slag them off. Soft start dimmers on MR16 in my opinion offer the best solution outside LED lighting. They offer the best of both worlds, i.e. Hard/ harsh bright light, or dimmed 'mood lighting' to the point of candlelight effect, Low voltage, and with the added effect of never blowing lamps.

Cheers.

 

[Robospark]

Just to be sure, you might want to check your voltage at peak and off peak times.
GU10s are rubbish - cheap initial install, expense to run and maintain.
LV are better (properly installed) LED the best but expensive to install.

 

[dingledong]

robo led is as cheap to install as gu10 its buying in the first place :goofy:

 

[Farmelectrics]

LEDs by the time you buy the fire proof covers it's cheaper getting LEDs I've been getting these 4w LEDs there quality with a great out put aswell

 

[actresskat]

Hi, It's also been suggested to us to check and see if 'fire rated GU10 fittings' have been installed as this would help prevent overheating. If we find them missing would we be able to go back to the developers of the building to get them to change them? And is it a fire hazard to not have a 'fire rated GU10 fitting' in place? Thanks for the additional help!

 

[Richard Burns]

Fire rated down lighters are the ones with a metal can on the back of them.
They are designed to ensure that if there is a fire in the room then the resistance of the ceiling to the spread of fire is not compromised.
They are only required in rooms where the penetration of the ceiling leads into another dwelling (actually if it is penetration of a fire compartment) e.g. if there is a another flat above the room. They are recommended in other rooms but make no real difference to the spread of fire in the main.

They will not generally help with overheating as they tend to trap the heat in the can to some extent.
This is similar to the problem you get when any type of downlight is covered in insulation.

The only thing to help overheating (apart from changing the lamps to CFL or LED) is to check if your fittings are only designed for reflector lamps as opposed to dichroic lamps.
Dichroic lamps push heat backwards and can lead to more overheating (particularly if the lamp is covered)
Aluminium lamps only send heat forward and can lead to a cooler fitting.
If dichroic lamps are put in an aluminium only fitting the fitting can get too hot and cause problems.
Reflector lamps have a solid aluminium backing, dichroic lamps have a semi translucent pearlescent backing, not very obvious unless a light is shining through the backing.

 

[oldtimer]

It makes you think we are trying to deal with a potential fire hazard and get berrated for not installing them properly yet how come the standards people did not just ban them or is it just the fact that big business rules and the guys at the bottom of the ladder get the blame.