Help with socket identification

KCJ2711 · Feb 20, 2022

Hi there everyone.

Kevin here. Hoping I can ask a question please. Home DIY'er with no official electrical training. Extent of diy electrics undertaken to date all very basic; plug changes, socket replacements, light switches replacements, bathroom extraction fan transformer replacement. Always without fail turn off all power supply at the consumer unit before doing anything, no chances taken.

I have a bedroom with only one single wall mounted socket in it and would like to add one or two double sockets to the room in the alcove opposite.

I have first checked and when I turn off the "upstairs sockets" at the consumer unit the socket becomes dead along with all other sockets on the first and (relatively newly converted) loft level.

I have had a look at the single socket in question and it has two sets of wires running to it (see pics).

In order to try and figure out where in the circuit this socket is I disconnected one set of wires. This led to all of the upstairs sockets going off except for the socket in question. I then reconnected it.

I then disconnected the other set of wires and this led to all the upstairs sockets going off including the socket in question. I then reconnected.

Finally I disconnected both sets of wires and all the upstairs sockets were off.

What I am trying to figure out is where this socket is i.e. part of the upstairs sockets ringmain and therefore whether I would be ok running a spur from it in order to add a double socket (or two with the use of an additional fuse) to the room.

Many thanks for any help offered.

KCJ2711 · Feb 20, 2022

I should have also said that the socket in question will also be upgraded to a double socket itself.

SJD · Feb 20, 2022

From the description, it sounds like the circuit is not a ring.

What is the circuit breaker protecting the circuit (32A, 16A, etc)?

And does the circuit have RCD protection?

KCJ2711 · Feb 20, 2022

SJD said:
From the description, it sounds like the circuit is not a ring.

What is the circuit breaker protecting the circuit (32A, 16A, etc)?

And does the circuit have RCD protection?

I've attached pictures of my consumer unit as, if I'm honest, I am not entirely sure. I assume that there is RCD protection as there seem to be dual RCDs protecting the two banks of what I assume are MCBs.

My understanding of what seem to be even the basics is lacking. I think for this reason I will almost certainly have an electrician come and do the work for me.

I would be interested tho if from my pictures your questions are answered and whether that then suggests anything further about my original question about enter I can spur from that socket?

Best wishes,

Kevin

SJD · Feb 20, 2022

Assuming the circuit is the "Upstairs Sockets" on the B20 MCB (and has RCD protection), then this appears to be a radial circuit - not a ring final circuit - and can have additional sockets added as a branch (or branches), e.g. from the bedroom socket you mention.

There are other things to consider when extending the circuit, such as complying with Part P of the building regs (e.g. cables in safe zones in walls, any holes in joists in the allowed part of the span). Plus the new sockets need testing to ensure they comply with regs - and are safe (not just adding to the circuit and hoping for the best) - which a competent electrician should be able to do.

KCJ2711 · Feb 20, 2022

SJD said:
Assuming the circuit is the "Upstairs Sockets" on the B20 MCB (and has RCD protection), then this appears to be a radial circuit - not a ring final circuit - and can have additional sockets added as a branch (or branches), e.g. from the bedroom socket you mention.

There are other things to consider when extending the circuit, such as complying with Part P of the building regs (e.g. cables in safe zones in walls, any holes in joists in the allowed part of the span). Plus the new sockets need testing to ensure they comply with regs - and are safe (not just adding to the circuit and hoping for the best) - which a competent electrician should be able to do.

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply in such detail, very much appreciated.

The "upstairs socket" MCB was indeed the one that seemed to isolate that socket as well as all other sockets on the first and second floors.

Having recently had some of the floorboards up in that room I know that the joists run perpendicular to the wall with the socket on, I'm assuming that is a good thing as no holes in joists would be needed. I am unsure if there are any regulations that dictate whether in this case the cable would need to be fixed to the length of the joist or whether it can just freely lie in-between the joists?

If you don't mind, could I ask your opinion on the following. I wish in no way skimp on costs in order to have this done properly and safely, however I do feel following some reading and viewing of various "how to guides" as though I would be capable of changing that single socket to a double and running a cable across the room to another double socket or two.

Do you think it would be reasonable to do this myself and have an electrician come in and check all the wiring work and as you say perform the checks on the sockets and ensure everything complies with regs etc? Or despite having it checked over, could this introduce some safety concerns/risks?

This would presumably save some money but I do also enjoy trying to expand knowledge and practical skills where possible and feel i would get some enjoyment/sense of achievement if I were to do some of this myself. As I said though I will not let this get in the way of safety and will only do so if the professionals agree it is safe to do so.

Many thanks again,
Kevin