Hi all! Old(ish) spark looking to go it alone but unsure where to start?

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

Nope, all conductors must be of equal c/c double insulated and in conduit, can be flexible conduit, lots of other differences as well.

Wow! That's really interesting! I'll have to look into this.
Thanks for the info!

 

[pc1966]

Wow! That's really interesting! I'll have to look into this.
Thanks for the info!

If you look at other country's rules you often see quite different approaches.

Some better than UK, some worse. But usually as a combined set they make sense, worst cases is when someone applies country X practices in an installation in country Y and something serious is missing due to that. Also next person to have to deal with the Frankenstein setup goes WTF?!

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

If you look at other country's rules you often see quite different approaches.

Some better than UK, some worse. But usually as a combined set they make sense, worst cases is when someone applies country X practices in an installation in country Y and something serious is missing due to that. Also next person to have to deal with the Frankenstein setup goes WTF?!

I have relatives in a America so I've seen their lash-ups and I totally agree with the flexi-con within the walls for wiring.
I try to adopt it where possible for my installs. It just adds that added bit of security for the cables for enthusiastic homeowners with hammers and nails....

 

[Mike Johnson]

Wow! That's really interesting! I'll have to look into this.
Thanks for the info!

If you really want to know about French electrical installations you can't go far wrong with this book: L'installation électrique - D.Fedullo, T.Gallauziaux - 6ème édition - Librairie Eyrolles - https://www.eyrolles.com/BTP/Livre/l-installation-electrique-9782212674941/ Waffles a bit, but the electrical circuits are accurate i.e dual MCB's in at the top and out at the bottom, no more that eight MCB's to any RCD, no more that twelve sockets on a 2.5 radial and eight on a 1.5 radial, no ring mains, individual radial for most white goods, bathroom extract, min six sockets above a worktop in the kitchen, you get the picture how different it can be.

 

[captaincaveman]

This one issue is that makes me avoid Screwfix where possible. Standing behind someone asking inane questions about item after item, in the vain hope of receiving expert advice. Does this happen in Argos or other catalogue stores (if any exist)?

Screwfix decided to change my account to Electricfix a while back and I recently did use that counter to avoid a store full of people. Felt bad jumping the queue after years of patiently waiting, but not so bad that I won't happily do it again

The best I recollect was a DIYer in Screwfix asking for a light bulb. The expression on his face when the counter guy asked what type...

 

[Mike Johnson]

The best I recollect was a DIYer in Screwfix asking for a light bulb. The expression on his face when the counter guy asked what type...

And now days he could be asked what whiteness and temperature now that could really confuse.

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

If you really want to know about French electrical installations you can't go far wrong with this book: L'installation électrique - D.Fedullo, T.Gallauziaux - 6ème édition - Librairie Eyrolles - https://www.eyrolles.com/BTP/Livre/l-installation-electrique-9782212674941/ Waffles a bit, but the electrical circuits are accurate i.e dual MCB's in at the top and out at the bottom, no more that eight MCB's to any RCD, no more that twelve sockets on a 2.5 radial and eight on a 1.5 radial, no ring mains, individual radial for most white goods, bathroom extract, min six sockets above a worktop in the kitchen, you get the picture how different it can be.

Wow. This is really interesting! Their limitations on circuit design seem sound although I haven't looked into it yet.

I feel our way of doing things is based on a "make do and mend" mentality which stems from WW1 & 2 where resources were limited yet the industry we are in seem determined to cling to the past as far as consumer unit/distribution board and circuit design are concerned.

Intriguing.........

 

[Mike Johnson]

FYI a typical distribution board and circuit diagram although RCBO's are used for the White goods, rare in rural France.

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

FYI a typical distribution board and circuit diagram although RCBO's are used for the White goods, rare in rural France.

Ahhh. Very different indeed!
Install cost would be significantly higher if we started using these consumer units!
Imagine trying to fit one of those in a cramped understairs cupboard!

 

[pc1966]

Ahhh. Very different indeed!
Install cost would be significantly higher if we started using these consumer units!
Imagine trying to fit one of those in a cramped understairs cupboard!

You also have to remember that the UK and, for example, France started out with different practices but by time you get to a certain critical size of infrastructure you are kind of stuck with those practices.

The UK had one major revision after WW2 and that was the introduction of the fused plug for domestic circuits to 13A. That was partly driven by the need to save cost on copper and CU size, but it was also a far sighted appreciation that we would need a lot of sockets in the future and huge numbers of small radial circuits are a really inefficient use of resources. I don't think they understood just how many folks now use, but they realised it would be more than one or maybe two per room!

From that we have the 32A RFC as well as the options for off 20A / 2.5mm and 32A / 4mm radials (plus the odd 32-45A cooker circuit's socket) all with unlimited numbers of sockets, subject to a sane expected total usage / coverage area / volt drop of course.

The other big difference that @Mike Johnson mentioned is they use DP MCBs as historically they did not have neutral well-referenced to earth, where as the UK with is polarised plugs (even in 5A / 15A round pin days) had established that pre-WW2 (though you will see some very old UK boards and cut-outs with fused neutrals - a big non-no these days).

Also most of the EU seems to be on TT earthing, so DP VOELCB/RCDs have been an absolute necessity for years, where as the UK with its TN-S (and recently TN-C-S) along with a very strong design requirement on Zs/disconnection times was content with line-only fuses/MCBs for fault disconnection and slower to adopt RCDs until deaths from lawnmowers slicing cables in the garden, etc, became a significant issue.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Imagine trying to fit one of those in a cramped understairs cupboard!

French regulations say that all CU's have to be accessible, that's why you see them in living rooms on the wall, very explicit when putting then in a cupboard, have to face outwards and must have a clear 600mm in front of them.

 

[pc1966]

French regulations say that all CU's have to be accessible, that's why you see them in living rooms on the wall, very explicit when putting then in a cupboard, have to face outwards and must have a clear 600mm in front of them.

Now if only the UK had adopted that requirement!

Along with a decent space around it, instead of a 4-way Wylex fuse board in a biscuit tin sized location

 

[pc1966]

Another thing you see in the EU (as well as in industrial stuff in the UK) is they commonly put DIN rail mounted control gear in the CU, usually stuff like heating timers and toggle relays for light circuits, etc. That is something I like.

Here we occasionally see a bell transformer in a CU but even that is unusual.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Yes the toggle relays (available as electronic) only require a single circuit for multiple momentary switches much simpler.

 

[captaincaveman]

Yes the toggle relays (available as electronic) only require a single circuit for multiple momentary switches much simpler.

As you obviously have a good knowledge of French kit can you tell me what Bs 3871 type this button press breaker is for earth fault impedence testing lol?

 

[Mike Johnson]

View attachment 96784

As you obviously have a good knowledge of French kit can you tell me what Bs 3871 type this button press breaker is for earth fault impedence testing lol?

It's for turning on Christmas tree lights in Blackpool, but the lever is missing, lets not go into spark arrest systems.

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

View attachment 96784

As you obviously have a good knowledge of French kit can you tell me what Bs 3871 type this button press breaker is for earth fault impedence testing lol?

Think it's a Type 3 if I'm not mistaken.