Discuss Hi Guys . 5yrs with NIC- hate em-want to rant. Giving Stroma a try- let u know! in the Certification NICEIC, NAPIT, Stroma, BECSA Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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p496hav

Hi all

Found this forum whilst looking to change scam provider, due to the sheer hell NIC have put me through since they mixed one of my assessment addresses with someone else's. (Get in touch if you did take an inspector to a flat in Regal Ct, Chelmsford- How did they treat you?). Was particularly taken by an "NIC rant" thread and will be adding to that or starting my own.
I had a pleasant ,successful assessment in Sept, shortly followed by a standard appointment request for Oct. Surely some mistake? Phoned, waited.........gave up. I e-mailed. Never ever got a reply. Week or two later get the "Assessment OUTCOME OVERTURNED" letter. OMG! - Hang on, they're talking about failing to notify an address I've never been to ,much less taken them to. Phew, a quick phone call and this will be sorted. At least now I have a direct line to my "administrator" Mauron (name changed to protect the guilty). Sadly, rather than just apologising, she went on the attack. "Where did you take him?".... "No that second address doesn't appear on my screen, that's the problem". At this point, without access to my records of the reference no., I'm beginning to doubt my sanity- my mums flat? used for assessment? not notified?... Eventually, "Oh! I do have a no.98 at that postcode, but the address line is wrong." No It's not, I've used the first address line, your system would only accept the second one- either will work. Now I kid you not, I am Quoting :-"Are you sure there aren't two no. 98s at that postcode? Totally! "Well in that case I will pass this new information on to the appeals panel and you will have to await the outcome of their decision."
Having committed no crime ,I was not prepared to let that go, and as Mauron was obviously unfit to run a bath, let alone a cps, I demanded to speak to her superior. Instantly her manner changed- It would all be sorted and she would write to confirm.
She never did, but my wife took an apologetic call from the assessor ,so until the second assessor turned up, I assumed it was sorted. I was on site miles away, but "she who is never wrong" explained and sent him away. I was mentally exhausted so chose to ignore it and let Mauron stew in her own juice- I expected her to get a right rocket for wasting half a day of assessors time. I waited the month that they allow us to get our paperwork sorted and moved on.
But no! Christmas came and went .End of Jan I got the "EVIDENCE OUTSTANDING" letter. That was a whole page of unintelligible legal nonsense without one word of the alleged crime, demanding that I provide proof of my compliance with the un-described, followed with threats of fines for reassessment, but if I had a problem I could phone Mauron- oh joy!

Enough rant! I'll do another post on the hours of wasted phone calls I spent on that one . Suffice to say I let her of the hook (in one call I asked twelve times to be put through to Geraldine, her supervisor) She repaid my kindness by reducing my assessment interval from 16 months to 10. Did me a favour, I was able to claw back the DD and vote with my feet.

So on to Stroma. I've not been able to find out much about them. Are any of you members? I feel they're a bit new to the game, but that might be a good thing, as the NIc long since got more concerned with stickers and H+S bull than wiring. As I'm purely domestic, my customers don't know or care about NIC's cachet (or even part P), so at £300 I'm prepared to give it a go. They answer the phone and e-mails well. Like all beaurocrats they assume we're all IT savvy and sitting at the screen 24/7. They want a lot of docs scanned and e-mailed (but before they take your money) so that's OK, once you have worked out your scanner and attaching and stuff. So thinking I'd ticked all the boxs, I sent off the money, only to presented with another 8 page form.I did me best,but about 6 questions such as

Please provide a copy of your procedure in relation to record keeping and how it meets the requirements of the CPS Standard(s) reference in Section 2.0.

left me standing, so I put a ??? and asked for advice.
They didn't reply to that ,but set my assessment date for 30/10. I'll update you then.
 
Welcome to the forum, hope things improve from your first post!
Stroma are not really geared up to do Part P, are working from a different song sheet and are more detailed in their bureaucratic approach. However they are cheaper than others and still meet your requirements for having a point at which you can notify jobs.
I am with Elecsa so this is just what I understand of them, jump through the hoops and you are there, they are just different hoops than NIcEEk want!
Good luck
 
Hello. I got bored reading the rant and gave up, sorry.

But I think you win the award for longest first post!
 
Just been doing some checking up on the dear old NICEIC:

Accounts reference date: 31/03
Last registered accounts: 31/03/2011*
Accounts next due: 31/12/2012
Accounts overdue: no
Accounts category: FULL
Accounts document available: yes

Annual turnover: £35,633,000.00
Annual profit: £5,308,000.00

Turnover per employee: £111,353.13
Profit per employee: £16,587.50


Number of staff: 320
Total spent on wages: £11,967,000.00
Average staff pay: £37,396.88 *

Number of directors: 20
Directors' remuneration: £257,000.00
Increase over last 3 years: -10.45%
Highest paid director's salary: £227,000.00 **
Increase over last 3 years: 176.83%

[h=4]Do you work for this company?[/h]Check what you're paid against the national average for hundreds of occupations with our online salary checker
* This is intended as a very rough guide only, and different factors can affect this considerably. For example, if the company has a lot of part time workers, the average pay per employee as listed here will be lower, even though average full time rates may actually be much higher.
** Including accrued pension and lump sum, if applicable.







and they are a wholely owned subsiduary of the Electrical Safety Council!!

thats a nice profit!

and it must be tricky for the highest paid director to survive on a package of £227K/ year having increased by 76% over the last 3 years - we are all in it together!
 
Just been doing some checking up on the dear old NICEIC:

Accounts reference date: 31/03
Last registered accounts: 31/03/2011*
Accounts next due: 31/12/2012
Accounts overdue: no
Accounts category: FULL
Accounts document available: yes

Annual turnover: £35,633,000.00
Annual profit: £5,308,000.00

Turnover per employee: £111,353.13
Profit per employee: £16,587.50


Number of staff: 320
Total spent on wages: £11,967,000.00
Average staff pay: £37,396.88 *

Number of directors: 20
Directors' remuneration: £257,000.00
Increase over last 3 years: -10.45%
Highest paid director's salary: £227,000.00 **
Increase over last 3 years: 176.83%

[h=4]Do you work for this company?[/h]Check what you're paid against the national average for hundreds of occupations with our online salary checker
* This is intended as a very rough guide only, and different factors can affect this considerably. For example, if the company has a lot of part time workers, the average pay per employee as listed here will be lower, even though average full time rates may actually be much higher.
** Including accrued pension and lump sum, if applicable.







and they are a wholely owned subsiduary of the Electrical Safety Council!!

thats a nice profit!

and it must be tricky for the highest paid director to survive on a package of £227K/ year having increased by 76% over the last 3 years - we are all in it together!

What website did you use for that info mate? I'd like to know how much my director earns haha
 
Hi and welcome to the forum

let us know about stroma mate I a with Elecsa and no probs

sounds like stroma are getting you to do some of the work for a smaller fee my assessor does all what you ahve stated at my assessment
 
A bit arse about face but I haven't posted much so it's probably Ok to say hi still. Not been going on my own for long and just getting ready for my first assessment with Elecsa. Any tips anyone? Heard they need a risk assessment policy etc, anyone got an example they wouldn't mind sharing?Thanks
 
Hi Clink,
I downloaded 4 pages of nonsense from the HSE back in 08, I put my name in every single box, signed it, and it's kept NIC happy ever since. Can't find that link, but I reckon the template at this one will do just fine:-hse.gov.uk/risk/faq.htm#g6(plus w's)
I got pulled up in 09 for not having a "Complaints Procedure", so I dutifully made up a form with boxes for :Date,name,address,date work carried out,Nature of complaint,action taken. The following year I was pulled up for not filling it in! "But I've had none!" Apparently I'm supposed to put May 09- May 10....NO COMPLAINTS! Hey-ho this sure is making my customers safer.
First asses' is stressful, but (bar one) NIC's guys were the only human contact I ever had. They will find fault, let them, it's their job, but if it's only procedure bull or lack of a sticker, so what. Pick their brains, it makes em feel useful, they won't fail you on first unless you're a complete numpty.
Good luck. Got mine with Stroma tomorrow- let u know!
 
Hi guys,
Stroma assessment update- good and bad news I'm afraid. Really nice chap turned up- IN A VAN! Got on well. Monstrous amount of repetitive paperwork to fill in- signed it at least 4 times! Whilst he was happy with my work, sadly he couldn't sign me off there and then- had to refer it back to the office.
Their response:-
Peter needs to send us photographic evidence showing that he has labelled the consumer unit with a next test and inspection sticker.
· Also evidence of risk assessment, health and safety procedures are in place
· Explanation of reporting and certification and how it meets CPS standards(he can reference IET website for most of this)
· Professional development (just needs to let us know he is keeping up with current standards etc)
· Method statements

My reply:-
Many Thanks for a very pleasant assessment, Mark was very professional, knowledgeable and helpful.

Now to the bureaucracy:-
Point1:- Test/ins' label- I correctly pointed this oversight out to Mark, but as I didn't install, test or inspect this board,(apart from my 4 circuits) I'm surprised that you want me to put my name to it. If you really want photographic proof of a sticker, I would prefer to send a pic of one of my own installs.

Points 2 to 5:- I have to say I'm disappointed with your vague responses to my requests for help with this. I am only a sole trader, and internet forums imply that none of this applies to firms of less than 5 employees. To the best of my knowledge ( I've been with the NICE for the last 6 years) no other scheme provider asks for it. Are you sure you're not confusing the requirements of CPS with those of MCS ?
Further to your clue about the IET, I have discovered the"ELECTRO TECHNICAL ASSESSMENT SPECIFICATION FOR USE BY CERTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION BODIES".(copy attached).

If you have access to documentation that supersedes this could you please send me a copy or a direct link.

As far as I can see, I comply, with the arguable exception of :-
"15.6.8 evidence that a written health and safety policy statement is in place and that risk Assessments are carried out as appropriate."
Even this gives us the "as appropriate" get-out. As a single operator with 32 years clean record, I think my assessments are proved sufficient and appropriate.

On a more positive note, during the many unpaid hours I have devoted to this ,I have found a General risk assessment form (copy attached). It's .pdf which is difficult for me to work with, needs tweaking and personalising, but covers more than I could ever have thought of. If it helps you tick a box, am I on the right track with this?

Their reply today:-
I can confirm that I will try to get someone to look at this evidence for you by the end of the week. At the moment a lot of our staff are away on business, so please be patient.

So still up in the air. I'm beginning to suspect I'm the first to try them. Some will say I'm pushing my luck rattling their cage like this, but I've had enough of mindless bureaucracy and really don't understand what they want. If anyone can give me templates relevant to a sole trader electrician?, I'll gladly fill them in and send back.

Interesting point I found in the iet spec, "14.2 A Certification or Registration Body may, following risk Assessment and at its discretion, vary the interval between surveillance visits. The interval shall not exceed three years."

Any advice? Thanks.
 

Reply to Hi Guys . 5yrs with NIC- hate em-want to rant. Giving Stroma a try- let u know! in the Certification NICEIC, NAPIT, Stroma, BECSA Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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