Discuss Home based spray booth in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Andy78

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Just been to quote for an odd job. Fella wants to do a car spraying business from home, in his double garage at the end of the garden. Wants ceiling and wall mounted lighting, provision for a 32A compressor, no mechanical air extraction, random sockets dotted about.

Am I right in thinking all this gear should be atex/ex ? I have zero qualification, knowledge, or experience in this area so bear with me. Is it my lookout as designer or his lookout as the customer as to what he finally uses the garage for as to what equipment is installed ?

He doesn't seem to have much of a clue about any requirements electrically or safety wise. He originally wanted me to use a 13A spur from the downstairs sockets for this lot, and was happy to use his existing lighting, vapour proof fittings minus lids on extension leads, for the finished job. I asked if his business insurance required EX rated equipment but he shrugged and looked confused like there wasn't going to be any insurance.

Not comfortable about even quoting for this at the minute.
 

Pete999

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Just been to quote for an odd job. Fella wants to do a car spraying business from home, in his double garage at the end of the garden. Wants ceiling and wall mounted lighting, provision for a 32A compressor, no mechanical air extraction, random sockets dotted about.

Am I right in thinking all this gear should be atex/ex ? I have zero qualification, knowledge, or experience in this area so bear with me. Is it my lookout as designer or his lookout as the customer as to what he finally uses the garage for as to what equipment is installed ?

He doesn't seem to have much of a clue about any requirements electrically or safety wise. He originally wanted me to use a 13A spur from the downstairs sockets for this lot, and was happy to use his existing lighting, vapour proof fittings minus lids on extension leads, for the finished job. I asked if his business insurance required EX rated equipment but he shrugged and looked confused like there wasn't going to be any insurance.

Not comfortable about even quoting for this at the minute.
Paint spraying booths usually require vapour proof installations and dust extraction, some investigation if he won't go for the proper install then my advice would be to walk away, not worth sullying your good name, f0r the sake of a cheap job that will have your name attached to it.
 

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Pete999

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As above, regulations on booths are pretty strict not just about explosive atmosphere but also paint and solvent vapours into the atmosphere. I know this as the Army had most of its spray booths condemned in the 90's as they didn't comply for many reasons.

Edit: Spray Booth Testing - The Law on Spray Booth Design Requirements - https://www.agm-services.co.uk/spray-booth-testing-what-the-law-says/
Agree the REME W/S I looked after will vouch for that from Strima
 

ipf

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Just been to quote for an odd job. Fella wants to do a car spraying business from home, in his double garage at the end of the garden. Wants ceiling and wall mounted lighting, provision for a 32A compressor, no mechanical air extraction, random sockets dotted about.

Am I right in thinking all this gear should be atex/ex ? I have zero qualification, knowledge, or experience in this area so bear with me. Is it my lookout as designer or his lookout as the customer as to what he finally uses the garage for as to what equipment is installed ?

He doesn't seem to have much of a clue about any requirements electrically or safety wise. He originally wanted me to use a 13A spur from the downstairs sockets for this lot, and was happy to use his existing lighting, vapour proof fittings minus lids on extension leads, for the finished job. I asked if his business insurance required EX rated equipment but he shrugged and looked confused like there wasn't going to be any insurance.

Not comfortable about even quoting for this at the minute.
Don't go anywhere near it. I've done plenty work on industrial spray booths for a motor vehicle production business. For starters a complex intake and output system for extraction, designed and installed to appropriate standard, would be required. The toxins involved in paints and lacquers can be deadly as well as the dust from tet grinding and finishing. No way an amateurish business.
 
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Andy78

Andy78

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As above, regulations on booths are pretty strict not just about explosive atmosphere but also paint and solvent vapours into the atmosphere. I know this as the Army had most of its spray booths condemned in the 90's as they didn't comply for many reasons.

Edit: Spray Booth Testing - The Law on Spray Booth Design Requirements - https://www.agm-services.co.uk/spray-booth-testing-what-the-law-says/
Yes, my first thought was obviously vapour proof anti-corrosion light fittings, but I have no clue about the specialist (to me) EX side of things.

I'll give that link a perusal :handok:
 

Pete999

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...and certainly no sockets in such an environment. All air tools used.
Agree and non sparking tools, can't for the life of me remember the right name for them. Had a brain freeze, just paid for me car service.
 
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Andy78

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Just popped the question to my scheme technical line and they reckon if water based paint then it's not a potentially explosive environment and crack on. If cellulose based paint then it's an explosive environment.

Seems a bit simplistic to me and I'm not really convinced with that ....
 

Pete999

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Just popped the question to my scheme technical line and they reckon if water based paint then it's not a potentially explosive environment and crack on. If cellulose based paint then it's an explosive environment.

Seems a bit simplistic to me and I'm not really convinced with that ....
No nor me fobbed off springs to mind
 

James the Spark1976

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I would keep well away from that job.
Once you have spent time researching and quoting it,

I bet it comes in at the 1k to 2k kind of figure to do it right.
I suspect the customer has £200 to £300 in mind.

I have in the past bought explosion proof light fittings for £200 each.

Do it wrong and he blows the roof and doors off, there will be some unpleasant questions pushed your way by insurers and or a coroners court.
 

ipf

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Agree and non sparking tools, can't for the life of me remember the right name for them. Had a brain freeze, just paid for me car service.
Usually sanding machines, Pete....but all prep work (ie. before painting) is generally done in a separate room, or mode if the booth has facility, to avoid problems with fine dust in the painting area......doesn't half show up as specking on the final product.
 
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Andy78

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Thanks to all for confirming my tingling sparky senses. I have swerved the job and provided the fella with as much info as I can about what he should be considering with this installation.
 

ruston

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It is not just the painting , it is the extraction filtration into the atmosphere too. The days of opening the door to let it out are long gone and are subject to stringent H&E checks . Even opening the booth doors after spraying is on a time limit too. The filtered waste is collected in an extraction unit , and done properly the filtered air is cleaner than the air drawn in.
 
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Andy78

Andy78

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It is not just the painting , it is the extraction filtration into the atmosphere too. The days of opening the door to let it out are long gone and are subject to stringent H&E checks . Even opening the booth doors after spraying is on a time limit too. The filtered waste is collected in an extraction unit , and done properly the filtered air is cleaner than the air drawn in.
That was his plan. Open the doors "if he really needed to" and maybe get a plug in fan to blow it about. Not for safety reasons, but to stop the paint settling on what he'd just sprayed and ruining the finish.

If I'm honest I'm glad I won't be involved with him. He reckoned this was his trade for the past 15 years so surprised he was so clueless.
 

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Agree and non sparking tools, can't for the life of me remember the right name for them. Had a brain freeze, just paid for me car service.
Intrinsically Safe was what I was looking for
 

Des 56

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He has asked for work to be done,what he does with what you provide is his look out
I don't see how anyone can be responsible for whatever work is then carried out
 

Pete999

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He has asked for work to be done,what he does with what you provide is his look out
I don't see how anyone can be responsible for whatever work is then carried out
Appreciate what you are saying Des, but is the client not paying for the installers expertise and advice? after all what would you say if you told the Tyre fitter yo put duff tyres on your car and it failed the MOT? To be honest I can't see the logic of your reply.
 

Des 56

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I have very often gone into industrial units,supplied 3 phase and single phase outlets,perhaps high bay or fluorescent lights,used differing methods of installing,conduit,pyro, armoured, clipped,whatever was wanted and complied it got installed
What I would not do would be refuse to install because "they may" be used for purposes other than what they are not intended

I have no problem with giving advice and would always do so,but what someone does with their business is their responsibility
Having said that,if I were then to report on a installation that I had fitted and it was being used inappropriately I would also make a unsatisfactory report
My responsibility is not to make decisions on the working environment of other businesses

Just to add,this is my own personal opinion.its not meant to be argumentative,it can be accepted or rejected,that is your own prerogative,what it does not deserve is insult,thanks in advance
 
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Andy78

Andy78

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What I would not do would be refuse to install because "they may" be used for purposes other than what they are not intended
I think that's the rub for me. I definitely know what the use will be so I need to advise with that in mind. It wouldn't sit right with me otherwise.

The fella has since thanked me for my advice and is rethinking his way forward.
 

Pete999

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I have very often gone into industrial units,supplied 3 phase and single phase outlets,perhaps high bay or fluorescent lights,used differing methods of installing,conduit,pyro, armoured, clipped,whatever was wanted and complied it got installed
What I would not do would be refuse to install because "they may" be used for purposes other than what they are not intended

I have no problem with giving advice and would always do so,but what someone does with their business is their responsibility
Having said that,if I were then to report on a installation that I had fitted and it was being used inappropriately I would also make a unsatisfactory report
My responsibility is not to make decisions on the working environment of other businesses

Just to add,this is my own personal opinion.its not meant to be argumentative,it can be accepted or rejected,that is your own prerogative,what it does not deserve is insult,thanks in advance
Des, not sure what your inference to an insult means, I for one never intended to insult anyone, just couldn't understand your logic, if you mistakenly took my response as an insult than you to have misunderstood my reply, no insult was/is intended, perhaps you could clear up your inference for the sake of harmony amongst Forum members.
 

Des 56

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My apology to you Pete if it seemed aimed at you,it was not meant for you or your post

It was because of what I experienced on this forum last year with the EU thread,that thread went way beyond what was being discussed,I was personally getting too much abuse simply for having a different opinion to most others.I have a opposite view to most on this thread and just slipped that in at the end for the sake of harmony :)
 

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