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don Logan

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Hi, i'm sticking downlights in my kitchen. The ceiling measures 3150x4100mm and i'm not entirely sure how many downlights to put in. There's a lot of insulation above and not much room so i was gonna stick in LED's as they don't give off much heat.

How many LED downlights would people generally use for a kitchen this size?

I was thinking 6 (in 2 rows of 3), but am not sure if that would be too bright as i'm using LED's instead of halogen. I don't really want to pay out for dimmable LED's and a dimmer; I'd rather get the right amount of downlights.

Never used LED's before so am unsure of light output. Anyone got any advice and a link for some decent LED's?

Thanks.
 
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telectrix

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i'd go for 5watt kosnic LEDs. alternatives from diamondledlighting.co.uk. but i would go for more than 6.
 
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don Logan

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  • #3
Ok, maybe i'll stick 8 in then.

Do those 5 watt Kosnic LED's fit into normal 230v downlights then? Or do i need downlights with electronics in them?

Thanks.
 
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pjcomp

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  • #4
Just did a shower room 3m x 2m - started with 4 LEDs (4.5W), 2 for the shower at one end and 2 for the toilet at the other end. Next day hosueholder wanted 2 more for the gap in the middle as there was a darker area there, so ended with 6. Admittedly the fittings were IP65 so less light spread than if the lamps were lower in the fitting. Reckon in a kitchen your size I'd add another row of 3 to that.

The lamps I used were 230V EBrite and fitted into standard JCC fire-rated IP65 downlighters no trouble

PJ
 
can you provide a plan of the kitchen and ceiling height as this will have more impact than just the quantity. I would use
decent integrated led downlights like Halers, these come with a 7 year guarantee so are fit and forget,, they look excellent and provide a decent amount of output and are available in warm white or daylight.
 

telectrix

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as long as you buy GU10 LEDs, they fit standard 230V GU10 downlight fittings. nothing else required. it's the MR16s that require drivers.

from the dimensions you have given, i'd fit 2 rows of 4 each.
 
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don Logan

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  • #7
Ok cheers, as for the kitchen plan Pat Tester- It's a square, 3150x4100mm, only one wall unit, so not much to block out the light, other than that i don't know what to say.

I was thinking, if i use LED's, then can i get away with using non fire rated GU10 fittings? Being as they don't give off much heat... I'm prepared to spend on the LED's instead of buying GU10 halogens, but if i can save on the fittings without compromising fire safety, then i will. What am i looking at per fitting for LED's? Does a standard £8(ish) pound GU10 fitting with a £20 LED lamp sound about right?

Thanks.
 
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KevinS

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  • #8
I would personally go for 12 in a room that size, kitchens need to be bright

If you put less in, I would try and plan the lights so if you need to put more in you can do without filling the holes you have already cut
 
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kellogs64

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  • #9
the fire shields your supposed to use are to stop fire from spreading through your house quicker,not to shield the heat givin off by the bulbs
 
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Lucas

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  • #10
I would personally go for 12 in a room that size, kitchens need to be bright

If you put less in, I would try and plan the lights so if you need to put more in you can do without filling the holes you have already cut
Seriously? It would be more like Blackpool pier than a Kitchen!!
 
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kellogs64

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  • #11
Why not spend a bit more and fit a dimmer problem solved more versatile as well
 
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KevinS

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  • #12
3 rows of 4 would probably be right.
mark it out on the ceiling, see what it looks like.
how many spotlights is a million dollar question, it's all down to personal taste, shape of room, colour of kitchen units, the list goes on an on. That's why I say make sure you can add extra if required.
other ways - fit a dimmer (as mentioned) or put them on more than one switch.
 
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Octopus

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  • #14
I'd recommend having at least 2 switches so you don't have to have them all on at once
 
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kellogs64

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  • #16
If your on a budget wait six months to a year for the prices to drop,mate they are expensive most people ain't intrested cos of the price . Oh I think a prefere 12 volts more stable .
 

Des 56

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There are two lighting types for any kitchen

The first has about as near perfection for light levels,with minmum cost and very little shadowing,the lamps lasts for sometimes an eternity,they are also friendly to the "save the planet" geeks, however, fluorescents do not look as nice as Mrs Jones's decorative lights

The second type are more expensive,they breach the ceilings natural fire barrier,they have a completely inefficient mode of light for the workstation,require changing on a regular basis,the vast majority (when installed by diy homeowners) are nothing more than bunsen burners in the ceiling,,they are "planet changing"in their power consumption and with the disposal of the failed lamps,but they have one overiding advantage over system one,they look pretty

In work,I install type 2s for customers,however,I would not entertain having potentially dangerous and expensive garbage fitted in my kitchen :smile5:
 
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don Logan

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  • #20
There are two lighting types for any kitchen

The first has about as near perfection for light levels,with minmum cost and very little shadowing,the lamps lasts for sometimes an eternity,they are also friendly to the "save the planet" geeks, however, fluorescents do not look as nice as Mrs Jones's decorative lights
The second type are more expensive,they breach the ceilings natural fire barrier,they have a completely inefficient mode of light for the workstation,require changing on a regular basis,the vast majority (when installed by diy homeowners) are nothing more than bunsen burners in the ceiling,,they are "planet changing"in their power consumption and with the disposal of the failed lamps,but they have one overiding advantage over system one,they look pretty

In work,I install type 2s for customers,however,I would not entertain having potentially dangerous and expensive garbage fitted in my kitchen :smile5:


To be honest, i've never thought much of them either. My wife suggested them and i said no, but a single pendant type fitting isn't enough to light the room.

I was thinking of using one of those ELV 'track' lights where the lights are suspended off of 2 parallel wires (know what i mean?), but the massive transformers look rubbish. I'm open to suggestions as i really can't be aarsed fitting and paying out for LED downlighters anyway. They do look good for when selling the house though as women do love a "spotlight" arrangement in the kitchen...
 
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Octopus

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  • #21
Nope...

And what of it Sir?
If you live in England or Wales it has rammifications on electrical changes in domestic situations...
 
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Rauer

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  • #22
Electrical works in a kitchen is notifiable to your labc through part p, installation of 12v lighting is also notifiable
 
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don Logan

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  • #23
Electrical works in a kitchen is notifiable to your labc through part p, installation of 12v lighting is also notifiable


I've rewired the whole house properly and I'm a fully qualified spark. I've tested it. It's all good, no i'm not 2391:yawn:, but know how to test and have years of expeience in testing heavy industrial and domestic installations.

I'm not Part P and am not paying someone else to come and test it and sign it off. Just out of interest- what's to stop me saying it was already like that when i moved in a year ago if anyone asks? What i'll actually do is pay my Part P mate to sign it off, like i'm sure most non Part P sparks do...

I know that you need to be Part P to sign off the work you do in customer's houses, but surely people are legally allowed to do what they want with the electrics in their own houses, even if not qualified?
 
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Rauer

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  • #24
Afraid not buddy! As for what's to say it wasn't like that a year ago, 1 cable is dated, 2 your labc would have it on record
 
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don Logan

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  • #25
'Dunno Mr Building Control Man, it was like that when i moved in 2 years ago...'

Anyway, does anyone have any alternatives to downlights for a kitchen?

Thanks.
 
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Rauer

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  • #28
I recomend what's fitted at the moment !!
 

Des 56

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Arms
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To be honest, i've never thought much of them either. My wife suggested them and i said no, but a single pendant type fitting isn't enough to light the room.

I was thinking of using one of those ELV 'track' lights where the lights are suspended off of 2 parallel wires (know what i mean?), but the massive transformers look rubbish. I'm open to suggestions as i really can't be aarsed fitting and paying out for LED downlighters anyway. They do look good for when selling the house though as women do love a "spotlight" arrangement in the kitchen...
Yes,Iknow the type and have fitted them.last time was in a farmhouse and they blended in well,the transformers I had out of the way in a store cupboard and switched them via a wall switch,so not too unsightly

But again I will say.the light levels and spread in most kitchens is best achieved with a fluorescent
Women need to be convinced that a kitchen is a workstation not a work of art, with expensive and poor alternative lighting

With the part p fiasco,my mates have never bothered with it and it has never hindered them doing installation in houses
Personally,I don't particularly care if someone is registered or not,its whether they are electricians and doing a job they are skilled at that is important
 

Amp David

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Afraid not buddy! As for what's to say it wasn't like that a year ago, 1 cable is dated, 2 your labc would have it on record
I wouldn't bother wearing your keyboard out with this one mate, he's never going to listen and knows best.
 
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Geordie Spark

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #32
i'd go for 5watt kosnic LEDs. alternatives from diamondledlighting.co.uk. but i would go for more than 6.
My builder mate is planning to fit 20 in his kitchen / diner.
 

telectrix

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as a starter, i tend to plan downlights at 3ft apart. this distance gives a decent illumination and gets the fittings bang central between the joists ( assuming 18" spacing ).
 

i=p/u

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Arms
and too the modern man, dont go over a 1000mm between lights and 500mm off walls, i did a rare shaped room last week and it ended up every 850mm one way and 900 another to miss any joists.

and if too bright fit 35w bulbs/lamps or leds

i also found dimming leds isnt that good
 
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Lucas

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  • #35
and too the modern man, dont go over a 1000mm between lights and 500mm off walls, i did a rare shaped room last week and it ended up every 850mm one way and 900 another to miss any joists.

and if too bright fit 35w bulbs/lamps or leds

i also found dimming leds isnt that good
Weird how different people work, always cool too see how differnent sparks work. I wouldn't go further than 1500 between lights and 750 off walls. In a kitchen I tend to go 600 off the wall (Unless a tallboy, try to go 750) Ideally I like them at 120 apart
 
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Rauer

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  • #36
I usually go 1m in on lounge's and bedrooms but go for about 700mm in kitchens and spread them no more than a meter and no less than 800 really
 
I find kitchens tricky due to the number of wall units that can "appear" after the lighting is done. Stick a nice IP rated florry up. No flies get in, and a nice spread of light :)
 

HandySparks

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I find kitchens tricky due to the number of wall units that can "appear" after the lighting is done. Stick a nice IP rated florry up. No flies get in, and a nice spread of light :)
Must admit that I'd not thought of IP rated fittings just to keep flies out. OK if the customer is into the industrial look!
 
Must admit that I'd not thought of IP rated fittings just to keep flies out. OK if the customer is into the industrial look!
Some good-looking units out there now mate. Just tell em the benefits of how if a tube were to explode (heaven forbid), then all the glass is held safely inside :)
 
My builder mate is planning to fit 20 in his kitchen / diner.
Last time I saw something like this was in a film with Johnny Mills in it, he was trying shoot down so Fockkers flown by the Luftwaffer over Blighty.

He was also sorting Sylvia Syms out at the time as well as saving us all from the cruel hun......and poor Caruthers took a packet over the channel ..............

And I bet his bank of 60 inch Carbons did not give off as much light as those
 

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