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W

will

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I am positive that hundreds of you can help me to understand better...

I would like to take a Part P course (EAL Domestic Installation) 5 days course... + 17th edition. What kind of job will I be able to do with those 2 courses?
I do not plan to work for myself at the beginning...so Will I be able to get a job with that level?
if not, What's the minimum course I should take...?
plz plz plz plz please make it finally clear to me... I am almost out of time because my wife is pregnant and I have to make money to prepare the finance for the upcoming child


thank you all

let me ask the question another way
what is the minimum of knowledge require to get to have a job in electrical installation?
 
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C

Cirrus

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  • #2
It says it in the course title Will - Domestic installers course. So, anything to do with houses. You will not be 'qualified' to work on 3-phase, industrial or commercial I believe (unless you do the 2330).
 
P

PAUL M

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  • #3
call me old fashioned will but dont you think an . electrical installation course might be usefull :rolleyes:
 
W

wonkey donkey

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  • #4
I hate these courses with a passion, you will know a little of the regs and a little of how to certify, you certainly wont be an electrician.
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
I hate these courses with a passion, you will know a little of the regs and a little of how to certify, you certainly wont be an electrician.
And no-one is saying they will be

They will be Domestic Installers - I think we have to start getting used to new 'titles' for people to describe their levels of competence in set areas

Love the course or hate it, it is there and isnt going to go away

And they will will know exactly the same amount of the regs as anyone else, i.e. enough to pass the 2382 exam.

And certification - they are domestic installers, the course is based on a domestic ring main and domestic radials. that means design, install, test, inspect and certify

Anyone who does the course with me (and it is NOT 5 days, EAL's guided learning hours are just on 7 days) will know how to do all of things with confidence and competence

If someone is focussed on domestic installations, why would they need to do 3 years in college covering H&S over and freekin' over, contracts management, motor controls, 3 phase, metal trunking etc etc?

And while we are on it Wonky old chum, what do you thinnk constitutes an 'electrician' then?

Just out of interest, you know;):p
 
S

Shakey

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  • #7
Thats why they are called The Five Day Wonders:rolleyes:
Yeah Ian, heard them called that,

just shows the misconceptions out there

People who do the DEI course with me (as a stand alone) must have electrical knowledge and installation experience

Many have done full rewires, board changes etc etc, they are just 'tying up loose ends' after Part P came into force.

'New' people (many of whom are actually quite experienced) do three weeks, including EAL DEI, C&G 2382 and 2392

And to all the 2330 students- you do three 10 week terms a year, generally one day a week, so thats 30 days

My guys do 15 days, so that is half of a years college for you. People say '5 day wonders' when in fact that is 5 weeks of college time

And when you take out the bulls**t that people complain out with the 2330 (key skills anybody???:p) the term '5 day wonders' is complete bolloc**s
 
Hi guys, first post so be gentle :)
IMO The so called 5 day courses are a good start but thats all they are, a start. The whole point of an apprenticeship back whne idid it was that you did your bit of college work for theory (i did 3x1 months block release 1st year then day release for 3 years thats about 180 days) but the main part was the 4 years on site actually learning the job.

Reckon I'm still learning now!

Our company has tried to cut costs by having gas installers do the "part p" course so they can certify their own work (spurs, bonding etc) i swear most of them make up the results, perfect readings every time, and in their words "its only electrics"!!! Told them they can certificate on corgi paperwork cos they aint getting near our NIC certs.

Will in your posistion i think its good to do the course as its a foot in the door and if youve not got experience but youre enthusiastic about the job most companys would give you an opportunity.
Good luck with your baby mate, my firstborn is on the way:)
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Hi guys, first post so be gentle :)
IMO The so called 5 day courses are a good start but thats all they are, a start. The whole point of an apprenticeship back whne idid it was that you did your bit of college work for theory (i did 3x1 months block release 1st year then day release for 3 years thats about 180 days) but the main part was the 4 years on site actually learning the job.

Reckon I'm still learning now!

Our company has tried to cut costs by having gas installers do the "part p" course so they can certify their own work (spurs, bonding etc) i swear most of them make up the results, perfect readings every time, and in their words "its only electrics"!!! Told them they can certificate on corgi paperwork cos they aint getting near our NIC certs.

Will in your posistion i think its good to do the course as its a foot in the door and if youve not got experience but youre enthusiastic about the job most companys would give you an opportunity.
Good luck with your baby mate, my firstborn is on the way:)
Well said Jimmus

you have amplified the point i was trying to make

Of course there are different routs into our world, and there is, and hopefully always will be, the traditional route through years of tech for the 'full' sparks

But there is also now valid routes for people who require the skills and competence, but in a much more specif field than the 'all-rounder'

It doesnt help when some training providers pack students into huge classes where they learn little and get handed the qual at the end, almost as an 'attendance course'
 
J

Jumbonipondon_squilobidon

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
would I NOT be classed as an electrician with a four-year indentured Electrical Fitter apprenticeship without 236 or 2330? I did HND, 2381, 2391.:confused:
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
would I NOT be classed as an electrician with a four-year indentured Electrical Fitter apprenticeship without 236 or 2330? I did HND, 2381, 2391.:confused:
i am in exactly the same position

came from a technician/maintenance background, got ONC, HND etcetc, but no L3 installation qual such as 2330

25yrs experience, and I teach 2392, 2391, 2382, EAL etc etc

and I am not classed an electrician!!!!!!!!
 
M

Moog

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
I though the part P only qualified you to run a spur of existing wiring as they dont do any real testing nor cable calcs, good enough for a plumber to wire in a boiler but no new circuits. The real problem is that any qualifications you take can only be useful in proving that you are competent in a court case, the more you have the better your case. My understanding is that anyone can do any electrical work even without any qualifications. However if you are accused of harming someone then proving that it wasnt your fault is a lot harder without certification. There is no eqivalent to CORGI certified for electricains and it doesnt look as thought that will change anytime soon. Having years of experience and not harming anyone is in my opinion just as valid as going the City and Guilds route and with the right lawyer the same in court, where it counts
 
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S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
I though the part P only qualified you to run a spur of existing wiring as they dont do any real testing nor cable calcs, good enough for a plumber to wire in a boiler but no new circuits. The real problem is that any qualifications you take can only be useful in proving that you are competent in a court case, the more you have the better your case. My understanding is that anyone can do any electrical work even without any qualifications. However if you are accused of harming someone then proving that it wasnt your fault is a lot harder without certification. There is no eqivalent to CORGI certified for electricains and it doesnt look as thought that will change anytime soon. Having years of experience and not harming anyone is in my opinion just as valid as going the City and Guilds route and with the right lawyer the same in court, where it counts
I presume by Part P you mean the EAL DEI?

It certainly is much more than doing a spur!

My students certainly do all the calcs

They design and install a CU, selecting CPD's and cable sizes using Ib In Iz

They insyall a ring main, sw/fuse spur. cooker control unit and outlet plate, 1 and 2 way lighting circuits, SWA, shower double pole switch to a simulated shower unit.

They do both main and supplementary bonds

They fully test the installation and complete all relevant certs

There are 17 modules in the course and they must successfuly complete them all

Most also do 17th edition and C&G 2392 in the same package
 
M

Moog

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
I am by no means an expert on courses, I was simply repeating what I had been told about the Part P section of the building regs. I was advised that when I completed city and guilds 2330, 2356, 2381, 2391 to lvl 3 that part P was not required. Further as I was also told that it was intended for plumbers ( i.e. non-electriains ) to be able toinstall boilers etc off existing circuits. Are you saying that after only passing your course then I would be legally able to do full electrical installations without requiring it assessed and signed off by a certified electrian? I am not knocking your course just saying what I thought the part P certified you capable of in the eyes of the law not what level your course teaches to. As an aside you say 17th Edition and 2392 would your course allow them to continue onto 2391 and 2381 without getting level 3 in 2330 and 2356? I was recently told only students who have already completed or are attending level 3 could do these qualifications
 
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S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
I am by no means an expert on courses, I was simply repeating what I had been told about the Part P section of the building regs. I was advised that when I completed city and guilds 2330, 2356, 2381, 2391 to lvl 3 that part P was not required. Further as I was also told that it was intended for plumbers ( i.e. non-electriains ) to be able toinstall boilers etc off existing circuits. Are you saying that after only passing your course then I would be legally able to do full electrical installations without requiring it assessed and signed off by a certified electrian? I am not knocking your course just saying what I thought the part P certified you capable of in the eyes of the law not what level your course teaches to. As an aside you say 17th Edition and 2392 would your course allow them to continue onto 2391 and 2381 without getting level 3 in 2330 and 2356? I was recently told only students who have already completed or are attending level 3 could do these qualifications
Hi

2381 has gone and been replaced with 2382

Many of my students go on to do 2391 with me

some do 2392 first, some dont

The EAL course, when coupled with a regs qual allows you to design, install, test and certify your own work in a domestic premises

it also qualifies you to join a competent persons scheme such as NICEIC's

There is a lot of misconception about the course, particualary from 'full' sparks

Bottom line is most of my students have installation experience before coming on the course, and are just getting a piece of paper to say that they can do what they are already doing
 
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