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T

trev

Out in Newcastle with the Grandson today (if you're up here the discovery museum is well worth a visit) we walked past Grey's Monument and the National Front were out with banners proclaiming Britain for the British, Brits against grooming, bring back capital punishment. Only half a dozen of them and I think by the sound of them their collective IQ didn't scrape into double figures.
I honestly thought they had disappeared without trace a couple of years ago.
 
their collective IQ didn't scrape into double figures.

I met one once, he had a Doc Marten tattooed on his face and a dotted line around his neck, along with the the immortal words 'Cut Here'!
I was thinking single figure IQ as well :smilielol5:
 
The word on the streets in Shropshire is, you lot up north are thinking about bringing back the Halifax Gibbet.:wink:
That will liven up things a bit...lol
 
Even if it's 100% proven thAt the person did it ? As N example the killers of Lee rigby
 
Even if it's 100% proven thAt the person did it ? As N example the killers of Lee rigby

No.

The very worst thing you can do to a human being is deprive them of their freedom. - for ever!!

The same four walls, the same bed, table & chair and the same mind-numbing routine day after day for the rest of their life.

That has to be worse than the sudden stop at the end of the rope.
 
No.

The very worst thing you can do to a human being is deprive them of their freedom. - for ever!!

The same four walls, the same bed, table & chair and the same mind-numbing routine day after day for the rest of their life.

That has to be worse than the sudden stop at the end of the rope.

Indeed. But it's galling that it costs so much to keep them there. (About £40k per year.)
 
No.

The very worst thing you can do to a human being is deprive them of their freedom. - for ever!!

The same four walls, the same bed, table & chair and the same mind-numbing routine day after day for the rest of their life.

That has to be worse than the sudden stop at the end of the rope.

If it was that kind of hardship in prison!

If the media is to be believed then prison life is not too bad for them.
 
If it was that kind of hardship in prison!

If the media is to be believed then prison life is not too bad for them.

Not too bad???

Not being able to go to the pub, the beach, the country, take a holiday, visit friends & family, not being able to change the decor of your room when you want and to something you like. To wear the same style clothing every day. To be woken at the same time every morning and to eat at the same times every day from a very limited menu for the rest of your life!!

I can think of nothing worse!!

Do NOT believe everything that you read in the papers or see on TV- in fact, don't believe anything unless you've seen it with your own eyes!!
 
No, nor me. I'm firmly against capital punishment.
So am I.
Possibly an age/maturity thing.

When I was younger, very much younger, school age, it seemed like an expedient. Job done and dusted.
Dispatch, a one shot deal, rather than paying for a life term for a scroat in jail. Blunt and crude. But that's youth for you.

But age and a dose of reality changed my thinking.
Killing is just plain wrong. Killing a killer is just about as illogical as you can get. Based on stats, it isn't even a deterrent.

Then you have the possibility of error. The Guildford Four and Birmingham Six come to mind.
 
Not too bad???

Not being able to go to the pub, the beach, the country, take a holiday, visit friends & family, not being able to change the decor of your room when you want and to something you like. To wear the same style clothing every day. To be woken at the same time every morning and to eat at the same times every day from a very limited menu for the rest of your life!!

I can think of nothing worse!!

Do NOT believe everything that you read in the papers or see on TV- in fact, don't believe anything unless you've seen it with your own eyes!!
You seem to be describing my life as a child. If instead of fruitlessly attempting to earn rewards by being a good boy, and gone around taking things and got caught at some point and sent to 'prison' I would have been given decent meals and got the new clothes, games console and bicycle I wanted so badly. I might even have had an apprenticeship handed to me instead of having to do it all myself. In the best scenario I would have got the stuff I'd stolen.
Now where's the lesson in that?
 
You seem to be describing my life as a child. If instead of fruitlessly attempting to earn rewards by being a good boy, and gone around taking things and got caught at some point and sent to 'prison' I would have been given decent meals and got the new clothes, games console and bicycle I wanted so badly. I might even have had an apprenticeship handed to me instead of having to do it all myself. In the best scenario I would have got the stuff I'd stolen.
Now where's the lesson in that?
One of our neighbours is a prison officer, it isn't the holiday camp that the Daily Fail would have you believe Adam. I've had the regime described to me in some detail.
 
This might sound a bit weired but I've studied capital punishment from around the world. The long drop hanging method and table of drops needed to break the spinal cord devised by william marwood in the late 19th century is the most humain method and is still used today in parts of the old commonwealth. I was untill recently completely against a return of capital punishment in the uk but some events and crimes in recent times have changed my mind and believe it needs readdressing but don't think it a thing that can be rushed back into lightly. Honestly though if they had public vote id be a for a return. Something needs to change in this country and soon.
 
I couldn't bring myself to support the return of the death penalty. If one mistake/miscarriage of justice happens it's too many and over the years there have been many, Timothy Evans, The Guildford 4, the Birmingham 6 are famous examples of miscarriages that either did or would have resulted in innocent people being hanged.
The argument that it has some sort of deterrent value is false imo, many of the countries where it is practiced have a far higher rate of violent crime and murder than we do here so how is it possibly acting in the manner that some people claim?
Most murders are committed in the heat of the moment where people are not thinking of the consequences of their actions or happen when the perpetrator thinks he or she will get away with it.
Those who seek martyrdom should not be given it by the justice system.
Why would the government kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong
 
I couldn't bring myself to support the return of the death penalty. If one mistake/miscarriage of justice happens it's too many and over the years there have been many, Timothy Evans, The Guildford 4, the Birmingham 6 are famous examples of miscarriages that either did or would have resulted in innocent people being hanged.
The argument that it has some sort of deterrent value is false imo, many of the countries where it is practiced have a far higher rate of violent crime and murder than we do here so how is it possibly acting in the manner that some people claim?
Most murders are committed in the heat of the moment where people are not thinking of the consequences of their actions or happen when the perpetrator thinks he or she will get away with it.
Those who seek martyrdom should not be given it by the justice system.
Why would the government kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong
I quite agree with you trev and your arguements against are the same I used to and in some respect still believe but now we have the technolgy to prove beyond doubt the guilt of the people who commit these crimes. The examples you quote such Evans are very few and I hope that the evans/ christie case would have a different out come today has would the guilford 4 & birmingham 6. Take the hanratty case his family fot years beleived he was innocent and was wrongly hanged but when his remains werw exhumed and tested for his dna it proved his guilt. Im affraid getting the wrong person today is so slim the using that arguement against the return has long since gone.
 
Take a look at the innocence project Bes. There's people on death row in the US who's guilt is under considerable doubt, there's no reason to suspect that the same would not happen here.
I agree with what you said about some things desperately needing to change in this country but a return to capital punishment would be a backward step, it has no place in a modern, civilised country. Not for me anyway.
 

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