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Hi there . . . .

First up I'd just like to say I'm a long time forum member, but have not logged in for ages (a couple of years at least) and my account seems to have disappeared, had to register again. Not sure what happened to my account, but just to say that I am an amateur at this stuff, I know enough to not kill myself : ) which is why I come here for advice from people who've kept themselves alive while dealing with 240v every day !

I've got an illuminated rocker switch (see image below) - SPST, with three terminals . . .

switch.png


. . . I was hoping to wire it up so that it lit up when switched on.

I am using it to connect a simple live and neutral wire connection (see excellent illustration below) this is all taking place inside an audio effects unit, the switch simply needs to connect the live to the neutral to turn the unit on - the live wire is carrying 240v (well my multimeter says 244v, but I assume that's 240v) . . .

wires.png


Here's my issue, depending on which terminals I use, I can get the switch to turn the built in light on and off . . . or turn the power to the unit on and off (connect live and neutral) . . . but not both at the same time . . . . connecting live to the centre terminal and neutral to one of the outside terminals lights up the switch (but doesn't power the unit), connecting live to the centre terminal again and neutral to the opposite outside terminal powers up the unit . . . but no light.

Is there a clever wiring trick known to seasoned electricians to have this type of switch turn the power on (connect live and neutral) while at the same time turning the light on ?

Any input really appreciated (and yes, before you ask, you can use my wire illustration for your own posts).

Lee.
 
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You are not going to be able to switch the unit on by only having a live and neutral at the switch. The neutral only serves to supply the neon indicator, for the switch to function it will require a live in and a live out so three wires.
 

DPG

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What he said ^^^^^. It's a single pole switch. Do you actually need to switch the neutral?

There are double pole versions, but I don't think you will need one.
 
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You are not going to be able to switch the unit on by only having a live and neutral at the switch.
Cheers for the reply westward10.

I've probably not explained myself very well . . . I am able to switch the unit on - ('unit' = device this switch is controlling) - if I connect the live and neutral in the correct way . . . hold on, time for another of my excellent high quality illustrations . . .



switch.jpg


The neutral only serves to supply the neon indicator, for the switch to function it will require a live in and a live out so three wires.
I suspected something like that, I've been reading up a little about all the various switches DPDT, DPST, SPST and all that kind of thing, and even though I don't quite get it, I get the idea that it can be a little more complex than a simple on/off with a bulb in the middle to light up the switch !

Thanks for your input, much appreciated !

One quick question, is there a type of switch that would work in this kind of situation, connect the live to neutral while also lighting up at the same time ?

Cheers

Lee
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What he said ^^^^^. It's a single pole switch. Do you actually need to switch the neutral?

There are double pole versions, but I don't think you will need one.
Cheers for your reply DPG !

I have got a bunch of different rocker switches lying around, DPDT, DPST (and so on), I've always used them as simple switches, to basically bridge a break in a wire, so not really using their full functionality (lack of knowledge on my part), but I was hoping to get this one to light up when switched on . . . . do you reckon I might have more luck with a different version, like a double pole version . . . or is my limiting factor the fact that I am working with just a live and neutral wire ?

Thanks for any input 👍


Lee
 
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DPG

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Ah I see what you mean. Right, one pin is live in, one is load out and the other is neutral. It won't work with just 2 wires.
 
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Ah I see what you mean. Right, one pin is live in, one is load out and the other is neutral. It won't work with just 2 wires.
Ok, no problem, I'll just go with a non-lit switch.


Thanks once again for your input !



Lee.
 
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  • #9
I'm confused. It should work ok unless I've misunderstood.

I thought you said : "Right, one pin is live in, one is load out and the other is neutral. It won't work with just 2 wires." . . .

. . . and I'm only working with the two wires . . . so it's not going to work . . . and by 'work' I mean switch the device on and off while also have the switch's built in light turn on and off.

Sorry if I've confused something here !
 

DPG

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Don't know how it works at all if those wires are live and neutral. Connect them across the two switched terminals you have a dead short.
Live to one end, switched live probably centre. Remaining pin is the neutral return for the neon.
 
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  • #11
Don't know how it works at all if those wires are live and neutral. Connect them across the two switched terminals you have a dead short.
I might have to take a photo, it'll probably explain a lot more than my unhinged ramblings . . . hold on, back in a minute or two . . .
 

DPG

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I thought you said : "Right, one pin is live in, one is load out and the other is neutral. It won't work with just 2 wires." . . .

. . . and I'm only working with the two wires . . . so it's not going to work . . . and by 'work' I mean switch the device on and off while also have the switch's built in light turn on and off.

Sorry if I've confused something here !
No, it won't work with 2 wires connected. Definitely not.
 
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  • #15
He says it switches the unit on, how can it with just a live and neutral at the switch.
Yeah I don't know why he wants to do it with two wires. No chance. Surely the equipment has live and neutral connections available in it though??
Hi westward10 and DPG . . .

Here are a couple of snaps . . . not sure if this makes it any clearer.
Obviously the face plate and lid is taken off the unit, but basically the power switch would be on the front - poking through the face plate.

(don't worry I am not connecting this to the mains like this, with the wires just dangling close to the chassis, this is just to take the photos)

A.jpgB.jpg
C.jpg
D.jpg
 
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  • #17
No, won't work like that unfortunately. As I say, it's possible, but not with just 2 wires.
Ok, no problem, at least I've learned a couple of things today.

I'm going to do some research / study on how these illuminated switches work as I really am out of my depth, I will come back stronger and better and, in time, grow to be one of Europe's most powerful sources of live and neutral wire illustrations.

Cheers for the input from both you and westward10 !

Appreciated
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Lee
 

DPG

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If you're still in doubt about how the switch/neon works, have a Google and you should be able to find a diagram or example. It will make sense when you see it as a picture.
 

telectrix

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what i can't grasp from the pictures in post#15 is that the socket on the PCB appears to be a L and N input, so connecting a switch across then will do nothing.
 
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what i can't grasp from the pictures in post#15 is that the socket on the PCB appears to be a L and N input, so connecting a switch across then will do nothing.
It looks to me like a standard iec plug into the back of the unit. The live then goes to the plug that the OP has attached the brown and blue wires to, the blue being the switched feed for the unit. By connecting the brown and blue to the switch connections the blue (should be sleeved brown) become live, makes the circuit and turns the unit on. When he's connecting the neon side of the switch the live supplies the live(!) and the circuit forms the return path. The unit won't turn on as the neon won't pass enough to power the circuitry. As a well know meerkat would say, simples :)
 

telectrix

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ahh so the photo shows the plug and socket for the switch... then all he needs to do is find a neutral inside the unit and link it to the 3rd terminal of the switch. obviously having determined which terminal is which on the switch.
 

DPG

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ahh so the photo shows the plug and socket for the switch... then all he needs to do is find a neutral inside the unit and link it to the 3rd terminal of the switch. obviously having determined which terminal is which on the switch.
That's what I said!
 

Lucien Nunes

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I can't believe how long this went round and round in circles. If joining the brown and blue wires turns the unit on, the blue is not a neutral, it's the switched line as per Moley above (although, as it is inside equipment where BS7671 does not apply, I wouldn't expect it to be sleeved brown).

I don't think it has been said explicity but it looks like the OP is replacing a non-illuminated switch (for which the line and switched line are present at the connector on the PCB) with an illuminated one (which also needs a neutral that is not present). To power the neon, as per Telectrix, a neutral needs to be got (perhaps from the terminals of the IEC inlet, where they project through the PCB).

The equipment is being modified and its safety approvals rendered void, therefore the modifier takes on significant responsibility for safety and compliance. Whatever happens, it must be made practically safe, and an internet forum cannot possibly convey all the details required to guarantee that. I would respectfully suggest that doing modifications to mains-powered equipment by guesswork and experiment, without first being acquainted with the circuit and parts one is attempting to wire up, is not a good idea.
 
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DPG

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I can't believe how long this went round and round in circles. If joining the brown and blue wires turns the unit on, the blue is not a neutral, it's the switched line as per Moley above (although, as it is inside equipment where BS7671 does not apply, I wouldn't expect it to be sleeved brown).

I don't think it has been said explicity but it looks like the OP is replacing a non-illuminated switch (for which the line and switched line are present at the connector on the PCB) with an illuminated one (which also needs a neutral that is not present). To power the neon, as per Telectrix, a neutral needs to be got (perhaps from the terminals of the IEC inlet, where they project through the PCB).

The equipment is being modified and its safety approvals rendered void, therefore the modifier takes on significant responsibility for safety and compliance. Whatever happens, it must be made practically safe, and an internet forum cannot possibly convey all the details required to guarantee that. I would respectfully suggest that doing modifications to mains-powered equipment by guesswork and experiment, without first being acquainted with the circuit and parts one is attempting to wire up, is not a good idea.
Think I pretty much covered it in posts 5 and 10 though.
 

marconi

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Tynan2020: You refer to a Zip Switch B116 C2G SPST which is this one:

https://static.rapidonline.com/pdf/519932_v1.pdf

According to this datasheet you connect:

Line in to the outer terminal numbered 2.

Lin out to the inner terminal numbered 1

Neutral to outer terminal numbered 3

There is a diagram in the spec half way down on the left hand side.
 
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