Initial assessment

[mhar]

I am currently at school in year three of the 2330 and have just taken the 302 and 303 (I think) sections which I am confident about. Next steps will be the 17th Edition and the Inspection and Testing exam (obviously whilst still continuing with the 2330). I am intending to register (probably with ELECSA due to price) in the next 3 months or so.

Anyway, went round to a house recently to advise on aerial work for a new extension they were proposing. When I turned up two block walls had been removed and half a dozen sockets c/w metal backboxes were just left dangling and live in the kitchen / dining room. They have a four year old child who is into everything so used a few words not allowable on this forum and explained that they should be made safe ASAP. Anyway, got my first job which was nice and easy, breaking the ring in the middle, extending this middle section and reincorporating it into the ring plus alterations to the lighting circuit and a small extension. I fully explained my situation to the customer and that I wouldn't be able to sign the job off until 1st/2nd quarter of 2012, that we were actually reducing the loads on the circuits (replacing appliances with energy efficient ones, LED lighting etc), is that ok by them, yes fine! LABC informed of the work.

Needless to say it didn't go according to plan. Kitchen fitters arive and cooker point is in wrong place, new one is 17.4kw. Even though diversity calcs said 6mm and 32A mcb it felt wrong so said I would be far happier with 10mm cable so now having to touch another circuit (not in the slightest bit concerned competence wise apart from the certification point of view). Put in new feed and do Zs to get a reading of 89 ohms, new meter so a bit unsure of my result, ir test fine so do a Ze and still 'bad' result. Unable to find meters or where supply comes in so I look at nearest pole and the area has pme. Speak to son (Western Power linesman) who says it is almost bound to be pme. Customer returns home, we find meter cab under piles of rubble, no earth tail coming out of cut out. Get home, speak to son who comes out with me to take the **** but agrees it is tt (the tt system that school says we will very rarely encounter) so obviously some other considerations to take into account but I am still ok with my competence level.

Next thing is the rcd starts tripping a lot. It has been an ongoing problem for the five years that the customer has owned the (15 year old) house so I am told but never this bad. Completely random and just as likely when the house is unoccupied and 'nothing' on. So, central heating, fridges and freezers the main suspects. Ir test everything and all fine but do notice a few nasties like a 240v socket next to a basin, 240v fan above a bath etc and am beginning to get a bit concerned about rectifying such things without yet being able to certificate. Meanwhile customer agrees that a conversion to pme is a good idea so I have now decided that this work needs certification upon completion (rather than wait until I am able) and approach a local electrician, explain the situation and he agrees to help out - there were a few other minor complicating factors as well but I won't detail them here.

The result is that the electrician visited last week, is completely happy with what I have done, agrees with my thoughts and proposals, is happy to help / supervise the job and sign it off, even though he says that I am quite capable of doing the work and am possibly worrying too much!

So, the question is, should or can I put this job forward for my first assessment even though it will already have been signed off by someone else? The implication from getting help is that I am not competent but that is not the reason for seeking help but, admittedly, it is reassuring to have my thought processes and proposals agreed with. My thoughts are that if I get the 'wrong' assessor then he could view this negatively yet I feel that I have done the safe and correct thing

 

[Jay Sparks]

Hi,

You cant sign off someone elses work. So if the electrician has signed it off for you he will of had to say that he has done the work, therefore you wont be able to use it for your assessment because its someone elses work. On my assessment with Elecsa, I did all the testing and certs, which you have to do anyway, then registered it (part p) when I passed the assessment. I asked Elesca first if this was ok and they said yes. So if you have done the work, do the testing and the certs, make sure its all good, then use it for your assessment, then when you pass, register it through them.

Jay

 

[mhar]

He is going to sign off the work (not yet done) to the earthing system and cu - currently two boards, one rcd protected (breakers 32A+) the other non rcd protected (breakers 16A-) but no overall rcd protection. Proposal is to get pme, rcd protect top board and redistribute loads more evenly. This will be 'joint' work, bit like supervising an apprentice, which he will sign for plus will obviously test all circuits (which I have already done) that he is reconfiguring and sign for this. We didn't actually discuss the signing off of 'my' circuits, test results are fine and both I and the customer are happy to wait the couple of months until I am able to sign this off if that is required.
I suppose my question is really does his signing off of the earthing and cu works automatically encompass my works and therefore stop me being able to issue a certificate / put forward for assessment for what I have solely done before his involvement and, additionally, if two people are working on a property then the person signing the certificate will autonatically be partially signing for someone else's work so how does that work?

 

[Jay Sparks]

Hi,

I think the best thing to do would be to contact Elecsa themselves, explain your situation and see what they say. There pretty easy to talk to and at least youll know for defonate what you should do. Or maybe some one on here will have ben in a simular position to yours ans will know better.


Jay

 

[SirKit Breaker]

If he has seen at first fix, second fix and initial verification or had anything to do with the work that you have done, then it is down to him if he wants to take responsibility and sign it all off. His responsibility is for his work only. He may have replaced a CU with your circuits in it, and as part of that work he should have carried out the appropriate tests etc to your new circuits to enable him to issue a cert for the CU swap/install. You will still have to supply documentation for the circuits you have installed, and as part of that you have to confirm that the supply tails etc are all up to scratch, so in effect you are checking his work to some degree. You say that the job is a new extension. If this is the case and they have obtained full planning approval (planning permission) you DO NOT need to notify the works seperately under Part P. This is because planning approval covers all parts of the building regs, and the customer will have paid their fees for this. At completion the building inspector will only want the various EIC's and such that you issue, he will not want nor ask for additional notification Without these he will not sign the customers completion certificate.

So in a nutshell, whatever you and your mate have done, as long as it is all documented then you have no issues with notifications, and Elecsa et al have got nothing to do with it, although even though it is not notifiable you can still use it for assessment, he will only be interested in your work and your paperwork.

I was with Elecsa for 6 years, and can highly recommend them, i had no problems at all.


Cheers...........Howard

 

[Engineer54]

Wouldn't be a bad idea to contact the local DNO to find out if PME is available on this installation networks hook-up!! It'll certainly uncomplicate a few things for you!!!

 

[mhar]

Thanks SirKit. Full pp was obtained and building control have been out for the various stage inspections that they do, I was only trying to reduce the amount of text on a long winded explanation! I will use this job for my assessment as it (in my opinion!) demonstrates competency and understanding of the what is required. I have not yet transferred my results onto the requisite paperwork as we have been told at school that new style paperwork is required from Jan.
Engineer 54, after my .alarming. Zs and Ze results I did check for PME availability both visually on the pole which I worked out was supplying the property (which didn't have the pme marking on it, likely to have been kicked off as the pole also carries bt services, street lighting etc) and by checking adjacent poles for the pme earthing which I found (every fourth pole should be earthed). Was also confirmed by my youngest (Western Power linesman) when he came along that evening as he thought I was mis-identifying the earth system. It isn't the complications that concerned me, more the fact that I know that not signing off an extension to a ring and a lighting circuit for a few months is a bit incorrect but it is all done 100% correctly, I just felt that changing earthing arrangements and cu alterations should be signed off immediately if only for insurance purposes. Not being able to do this (and partly for my own reassurance) I felt it best to seek help from someone fully qualified