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Discuss Irish PIRs a few queries in the Electrical Talk - All Other Countries area at ElectriciansForums.net

Mikegh

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Hey guys

On the summary test data, the "Minimum IR" Is that a global reading they're looking for ie ; just the entire installation tested

Or is every final circuit tested during the PIR to find the lowest reading


Also for a 4(doesn't comply with current rules), how do you determine if anything needs to be done.
Do you need to know the age of the installation work ?

Same there for location of switches , are they looking for correct height from et101 on ?

Old work only needs to comply with old regs doesn't it ?

New to them cheers
 

telectrix

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On the summary test data, the "Minimum IR" Is that a global reading they're looking for ie ; just the entire installation tested

Or is every final circuit tested during the PIR to find the lowest reading.
each circuit needs to be a min of 1Meg. to "pass". but anything under 2 Meg. should be investigated


Also for a 4(doesn't comply with current rules), how do you determine if anything needs to be done.
Do you need to know the age of the installation work ?
not absolutely necessary. but an estimate should be entered on the report

Same there for location of switches , are they looking for correct height from et101 on ?
i'd imagine it's the location, e.g. kitchen/hallway/unser stairs etc.

Old work only needs to comply with old regs doesn't it ?
no.it must be safe for continued use, even if not complying with current regulations. e.g. lack of RCD protection on lighting circuits does not constitute an unsatisfactory, but any present orpotential danger would, irrespective of whatever edition it was installed to.

New to them cheers
 

littlespark

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Can’t say for Irish rules, but if you do a global IR, and get a good result…. Individual circuits can’t be any less value.
One bad IR will bring down the global, then it’s a game of fault hunting
 
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Mikegh

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Can’t say for Irish rules, but if you do a global IR, and get a good result…. Individual circuits can’t be any less value.
One bad IR will bring down the global, then it’s a game of fault hunting

Ya that was always my thinking ,.the global IR covered most bases if it was adequate
 

Risteard

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It's for the installation as a whole (i.e. in parallel) or for the distribution circuit including DB with all outgoing circuits included for larger installations.

Yes they are asking for confirmation that switches etc. we're installed at the correct height and location at the time of installation.

I presume you have a QC Number?
 
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Mikegh

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It's for the installation as a whole (i.e. in parallel) or for the distribution circuit including DB with all outgoing circuits included for larger installations.
Cheers so I think I'm right you'd be disconnecting the MPC for the global IR test at the main board, 1Mohm min is it?

The 1Mohm also applies to each final circuit as well does it not ? been a while since doing this
 

Risteard

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Cheers so I think I'm right you'd be disconnecting the MPC for the global IR test at the main board, 1Mohm min is it?

The 1Mohm also applies to each final circuit as well does it not ? been a while since doing this
Personally I'd disconnect the neutral rather than main protective conductor to ensure all Earth paths are included. I.S. 10101 mentions this although ET 101 didn't.

The minimum values stated are for the entire installation/DB.
 
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Mikegh

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Personally I'd disconnect the neutral rather than main protective conductor to ensure all Earth paths are included. I.S. 10101 mentions this although ET 101 didn't.

The minimum values stated are for the entire installation/DB.
Must be getting our wires crossed here

I'm envisaging all live wires joined at the main board meggering to the MET for the 1st global IR test

If you disconnect MPC link how are you removing earth paths ?
 

Risteard

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Must be getting our wires crossed here

I'm envisaging all live wires joined at the main board meggering to the MET for the 1st global IR test

If you disconnect MPC link how are you removing earth paths ?
You're potentially excluding Earth faults to the neutralising link between the ESB cut-out and the DB.
 
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Mikegh

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You're potentially excluding Earth faults to the neutralising link between the ESB cut-out and the DB.
Sounds to me like chances of that are slim to none

Anyway cheers ,.do you happen to have a quick description for certs 1, 2, 3 is it, the difference

Also restricted and controlled works makes my head hurt

Is restricted anything that's not minor works ?

Im getting lost on controlled works cheers again
 

Risteard

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Sounds to me like chances of that are slim to none

Anyway cheers ,.do you happen to have a quick description for certs 1, 2, 3 is it, the difference

Also restricted and controlled works makes my head hurt

Is restricted anything that's not minor works ?

Im getting lost on controlled works cheers again
Cert No. 1 is for works requiring DSO (ESB) involvement <50kVA. Cert No. 2 >= 50kVA. Cert No. 3 no DSO involvement.
 

LastManOnline

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Sounds to me like chances of that are slim to none

Anyway cheers ,.do you happen to have a quick description for certs 1, 2, 3 is it, the difference

Also restricted and controlled works makes my head hurt

Is restricted anything that's not minor works ?

Im getting lost on controlled works cheers again
I hope the following is of practical help.

1)I think you are on the wrong forum here. Very few Irish sparks from ROI on this site. Why not go local? British sparks would not be familiar with the concept of "controlled", "restricted works" etc

2) Your questions suggest you are a little unfamiliar with domestic installation work. Have you done a QC course recently?

3) You will find detailed answers to all the above questions on the Safe Electric website. Go in to "Contractors section" and click on "Technical Information". Its all there.

4) If there is anything there you want more info on, feel free to DM me
 

LastManOnline

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I'm not a rec

I've got the verification and certification
You can,t carry out PIR,s if you are not a rec. But if you are a qualified spark you can register to become a rec. If you have done a "verification and certification" course then you have all the basic,s.
Have just checked if you need to log in to access the contractors section in Safe Electric. It's open to the public. They have a good section in there on PIR, s.
 
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Mikegh

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You can,t carry out PIR,s if you are not a rec. But if you are a qualified spark you can register to become a rec. If you have done a "verification and certification" course then you have all the basic,s.
Have just checked if you need to log in to access the contractors section in Safe Electric. It's open to the public. They have a good section in there on PIR, s.
The REC gets you the QC number once u have the course
You dont have to be a rec to do the pir
 

pc1966

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Personally I'd disconnect the neutral rather than main protective conductor to ensure all Earth paths are included.
In ROI is there not DP switching of the main supply?

Usually here in UK simply isolating it at main CU switch allows global IR just by taking L & N from a final circuit and IR'ing to CPC

In the UK regs IR testing should be done with the CPC connected to the MET so any faults from cable to true Earth (e.g. nail grazing just one live conductor) are included, and not just internal L/N ro CPC faults.
 
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Mikegh

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That global IR in the UK

Is it L+N to E only are u also doing L to N with equipment out of circuit

You wouldn't be doing L N on a pir for larger installations aghh I'll have to find out
 

pc1966

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This is my understanding, but some other folks on here do EICR testing professionally so can say more:

Typically the global IR is L+N to E and is a useful first check if anything is really not good.

If you see much higher than Mohm then you know probably all is OK, but if low then you need to do more diagnostics to work out what it is that has pulled the global value down (e.g. lots of ropey cable or very dusty accessories in use that are individually OK but accumulate leackage to an undesirable level globally, or all good bar one damaged circuit, etc)

Doing per-circuit L+N to E is the minimum and (as for global one) safe at 500V as any electronics connected to the main supply has to be safe to at least that level of insulation. For example, typically class-Y capacitors for L-E filters are rated to survive surges to 5kV.

Doing L-N IR testing per-circuit is desirable, but not always practical, on existing installations if you have loads that cannot be easily removed (or you create more risk of faults, etc, by testing that it would fail to reveal if you did not test). Here it is always best to first check at 250V just in case there is low power electronics (USB chargers, LED lights, dimmers that use N, etc) unless you can be very sure everything has been disconnected.

For a new circuit before vulnerable accessories are attached you should test L-N at 500V though.
 

LastManOnline

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Also restricted and controlled works makes my head hurt
Agree. They could explain that a little better. Easiest way to remember it is that..

1) Restricted works refers to DOMESTIC only.
2) Controlled works refers to everything else. (com., Industrial)
Is restricted anything that's not minor works ?
Correct. Easiest way to remember it is..

1) Restricted work always involves the D.B.
2) Minor works never involves the D. B.
 

Reply to Irish PIRs a few queries in the Electrical Talk - All Other Countries area at ElectriciansForums.net

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