is an electric wall radiator without earth safe?

[danieru]

Greetings!

I would like to move an electric radiator to another wall. The radiator at it's current location is properly grounded, but the wiring on the target wall, unfortunately does not have a ground wire.

So some questions are:

How important is it to wire electric radiators with ground?

Is a GFI outlet a viable alternative if running a ground wire into the target wall isn't feasible?


Some info that may be relevant: I live in Sweden, and the radiator is rated for 230/400V up to 2000W, though I've looked at the wiring box for the radiator at it's current location and it's wired for 230V right now. My house was built in the 70s, and many of the wall outlets are wired without ground. I do understand the general purpose of having applicances properly grounded, but am less clear on in which cases it's particularly important, such as this.

Any suggestions/info are welcome.

 

[DurhamSparky]

i would possibly consult a sweedish electrician my friend..! slghtly different rules to the UK..

if it has an earth (Ground) at current location then i would assume that it NEEDS an earth at the new location in the event of a fault current leaking to the metal casing!

im assuming a GFI is what we call an RCD in Uk

 

[danieru]

Hi DurhamSparky,

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I should try and speak with a Swedish electrician, the difficulty is communicating well I live in a rural area so their English isn't always good, and my Swedish is so, so, thus my attempt to educate myself a bit at least on a UK electrician forum.

I'm using American electric lingo I suppose, but based on this wikipedia page, it sounds like a GFI or GFCI is the same as an RCD. So I suppose my next question is: Is the purpose of the earth connection solely for safety purposes? If yes, then an RCD outlet would be a viable alternative to connecting the radiator to earth? Or does the earth connection provide some other purpose for regular operation of the radiator, other than safety?

Edit: It may also be relevant to note that We have an RCD for the entire house; It's a box with a switch sitting next to the main fuse box. I accidentally tripped it once when I plugged in some old heaters on the porch that were probably touching something they shouldn't have or where otherwise unsafe.

 

[Engineer54]

If any appliance has a point for an earthing conductor, then it obviously NEEDS earthing!!

Any appliance is safe without an earth when all is fine and good, the problems comes when the appliance develops a fault to earth, ...then it becomes decidedly Unsafe, very quickly!! ...lol!!

 

[DurhamSparky]

Earth is always safety.....!! 99.9% of the time (the other 0.1% is when its used incorrectly)

the RCD is "Additional" to having the Earth not in replace of it.

 

[derek preece]

An RCD detects a fault current to earth, if the appliance casing becomes live then the protective device will trip. If the appliance does not have a connection to earth via an earth wire then a person could potentially become part of the fault path to earth. Very small currents can kill, around 50 to 80 milli amps. I am not sure on the requirements for electrical systems for Sweden but I'm sure there are some members on here who have some experience there.

 

[danieru]

Hi everybody,

Big thanks for all the replies.

The consensus seems to be: if the appliance has a connector for earth, then it should be connected to earth! Got it So it sounds like if I want to install the radiator on the target wall, I need to make sure I have a grounded wire run there.

Does anyone here have experience with Swedish wiring regulations? Is this something I can legally do myself, or do I need an electrician to do it?

I do have some basic experience: I did all the wiring in my sister's basement when she was renovating, and just so no one here worries about it, all the outlets were properly grounded(earthed)

 

[Engineer54]

Sorry i have no idea of Swedish reg's/codes!! I must admit though, i was more than a little surprised that Sweden were still running in unearthed socket outlets in the 70's!! lol!!

 

[plugsandsparks]

Another option is to replace the heater with one that is double insulated. Not always obvious which ones are but look where the rating plate is for a square within a square symbol. These do not use the earth for fault protecion

 

[JorgeC]

Hi everyone!
The earth connection is very important for your safety, and the electrical rule is for all world, this is a international standard electrical rule (IEC). So i advise you to ground the equipment in cause.

 

[Engineer54]

Hi everyone!
The earth connection is very important for your safety, and the electrical rule is for all world, this is a international standard electrical rule (IEC). So i advise you to ground the equipment in cause.

You obviously haven't been to some of the countries i been to then!! There are far more countries than you would imagine, that have never seen an earth conductor in any shape or form...lol!!!

 

[JorgeC]

Yes, i know and believe you, but is certain that is not a correct way to work with electricity, and protect us and the equipment.

 

[slowrunner]

Your heater is probably a Class I appliance and must always be earthed. I would not advise using a faulty earth in the second location. Why don't you either safely extend the existing wiring using a junction box or wire a spur from an existing socket containing a good earth. If you go down the junction box or spur road a qualified electrician has to do the work.

 

[the pict]

Like plugsand sparks said it would be easier to get a class 2 replacement radiator there is a lot around as I have wasted time in the past when testing a heater looking for a good earth on calss 2, look on the data plate for a box inside a box .
Pict