Discuss Is it right?? - Police officer still working for police and doing electrical and plumbing work in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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The copper sounds like a Boil in the Bag. Obviously doesn't give a ---- about his word of mouth reputation. I'm guessing prospective customers will soon hear about this fella.
 
I was rather suggesting that the person in question was already in a well paid and very well pensioned job and that the nature of his "dabbling" now and again is unlikely to result in him being very professional, as demonstrated, and that he is probably doing a full time sparky, who is maybe struggling to make a go of things, out of work. I have no intention of reporting him or anything of the sort, I just think, as my thread title suggested, that it is "not right", probably more morally than anything else. Nobody seems to have taken up the point that if they had been undercut by a guy like this, whether he is a copper, banker or anyone else on shift work, they should probably stick to that and work in a bar if they want a bit of extra dollar. Personally I think that everything that goes with being properly self-employed and maintaining a good standard of professionalism, along with all the things that go with it, is well enough to keep most people fully occupied. I would suggest that most people who are operating in this "on the side"manner are not only short cutting the job but probably short cutting many of their other obligations as well, including their tax, and they are certainly very unlikely to be part of a registered scheme. Regarding the 3rd part certification aspect I personally would not touch it with a barge-pole.

One can take a moral stance on things, but often they are 'ones' opinion, perhaps not subscribed to by others. Dare I say you will find a host of other electricians who had previous careers, some in military service, some in public service etc and some of them members of this forum, I seem to remember. I'm sure those working in the hospitality industry, would have different views on persons in well paid primary jobs doing part time work in their industry.

Back to the copper, if he isn't conducting himself correctly with his affairs as an electrician, he would be in danger losing his job as a police officer. Secondary employment in the public sector, is a contentious issue, but the private sector doesn't appear to attract the same 'press'.

I can understand your frustration, but I think it should be directed more at your builder, who is employing someone who probably is under cutting you, so that the builder is making more on his 'mark up'. I know of a few builders, where the trades invoices go through them, even though the builder has nothing to do with the job. Sort of consultancy work, by the builder making money out of people without lifting a finger. That's immoral IMO.
 
"I find it makes life far more interesting having 2 different jobs."
Of course, you would know @happyhippydad
 
It's dinner time and I'm avin Hoops
 
Policing was fun in the days of the Sweeney. The Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 is the police equivalent of Part P and BS7671 All bloody jobs are paralysed by Regs and the only people who make money are the lawyers.
Get yer trousers on sonny, your nicked!
 
Is you a bit tiddly, cos your heading this thread in a south westerly direction, towards Old Bill lighthouse. Suns over the yardarm now though :thumbsup:
I am
 
I think the op is looking at this issue all wrong. The fact that the other "electrician" is also employed in another job is irrelevant. The relevant part here is he is doing notifiable work without the ability to notify. If the scheme sparks in your local area stuck together and refused to notify A N Others work then this would be nipped in the bud pretty quickly.
But im afraid their are plenty of our fellow electricians who are quite happy to "sell their soul" for the 20 pieces of silver - So we are not going to stop this annoying stuff any time soon.
But just to clarify I would be just as peed off about Rob from the end of the bar doing me out of a job as I would about a retiring PC Plod.
 
So you think it is OK for a guy in a perfectly well paid job with a very good pension to be moonlighting, probably undercutting other sparks who are trying to make a living as their sole occupation? How would you feel if you lost a job to some part time fly-by-night who is just doing it for beer money, and not very well at that?? Sorry matey I don't think it's perfectly acceptable at all.
I don't understand your issue, I agree with @happyhippydad, if it is declared secondary employment then I don't have an issue (apart from his crap work!) Personally I have more of an issue with crap full time sparkys who should know better! Isn't all work just for beer money?
 
I'm siding with Roly and HHD too - it sounds to me that you've got an axe to grind. I don't see the issue with two jobs provided the person in question still does both those jobs correctly. There's two angles to this for me:

1) You don't have enough work on
2) You have plenty work on

If you don't have enough work on, it's not necessarily people like this to blame. I know plenty of sparks whose attitude is "that's the price if you want me to do it, if you want a cowboy feel free to get Dave from the pub at your own peril" and they do just fine.

If you have plenty work on, then get on with it - it wouldn't be affecting you anyways.

Cheaper options exist everywhere. If you'll do a job for £1 someone will do it for 50p somewhere. Not just with labour, if you sell a product of quality for £10, there's guaranteed to be a cheaper knock off for a fiver.

What someone currently earns/gets in pension/has in job satisfaction has no bearing whatsoever on whether they are able/qualified/experienced/good enough to do a secondary job on the side, and I honestly can't see one ounce of logic in your argument that it does.
 
I don't see the issue with two jobs provided the person in question still does both those jobs correctly.
I don't have an axe to grind at all, I think you have defeated your own argument in your statement actually. The fact that a copper is already doing a very demanding and time consuming job (the one in question is plain clothes), to me suggests he will not have the time to do another fairly demanding one, at least properly. IMO this is demonstrated in his obvious lack of awareness on this job. Who knows what other errors he is making in either of his "occupations", plus the fact that he is taking work from other sparks, probably so he can have the latest 4x4 and three holidays a year, while guys trying to make a go of it are losing out. IMO he is just a greedy *** Maybe it is just a sign of the times I guess.
 
I see where you are coming from , I don't think the Police nor the Fire service should be doing other paid ( legislative ) work , but my question is , who has done the design work for this ! .
 
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Going to be a bit provocative here, but I think there is quite a high level of jealousy here in respect of a guy that has worked 30 years in public service and is lucky enough to be getting a good pension. He's probably decided that he's sick and tired of policing and therefore want to try something else. I've seen plenty of comments on here from old school sparks who don't understand why anyone would want to join the profession due to hard physical graft, increased competition and bureaucracy. Works both ways.

I'm intrigued with the arrangement (if any that you had with the builder). You say you' ve been on site six times. What happened on the previous occasions? Have you actually spoken to the guy? I'd reiterate the 3rd party process procedure and then ask him if he wanted me to check it over (for a good bit of wedge). If he wasn't interested just walk away.
 
Going to be a bit provocative here, but I think there is quite a high level of jealousy here in respect of a guy that has worked 30 years in public service and is lucky enough to be getting a good pension. He's probably decided that he's sick and tired of policing and therefore want to try something else. I've seen plenty of comments on here from old school sparks who don't understand why anyone would want to join the profession due to hard physical graft, increased competition and bureaucracy. Works both ways.

I'm intrigued with the arrangement (if any that you had with the builder). You say you' ve been on site six times. What happened on the previous occasions? Have you actually spoken to the guy? I'd reiterate the 3rd party process procedure and then ask him if he wanted me to check it over (for a good bit of wedge). If he wasn't interested just walk away.
There is no jealousy here whatsoever I can assure you. I have plenty of work, you are missing the point. The very fact that this guy may have decided to "try something else" as you put it is exactly the problem, he is obviously under the impression that it is something that you can just do by getting a few tools together and maybe doing a 17th edition course, which he probably hasn't. Regarding the builder, I have had several such requests from different builders over the years (not the same guy), all of whom are trying to make extra money by short cutting the system and using people to undertake their electrical work who should not be, and then trying to get a proper spark to certify it. I am also slightly worried by your comment on checking it over "for a good bit of wedge", how would you inspect the first fix, for example?? I have decided that the next time it happens I am going to mention the builder and job in question to the local BCO.
 
I think we're probably at crossed purposes here. If you had been asked to act as a third party certify, presumably you would have looked at the design and first fix and advised accordingly . As you say, the builder is trying to pull a fast one. The Regs are there for a reason and in my view the more good professional qualified sparks adhere the better the trade will be for it in the long run. My comment re the wedge was purely that you would be charging appropriately for any time that you have to spend inspecting an testing or advising etc. What was going on re the six previous visits?
 
I have decided that the next time it happens I am going to mention the builder and job in question to the local BCO.

As regards secondary employment, the cops in the US are allowed to rent themselves out to the shopping Malls, via their own agents, something cops over here aren't allowed to do, which is the correct thing IMO. However, if a cop wants to do some other form of secondary work, I can't see a problem in it. As long as they have the appropriate permission, and have the suitable qualification & expertise, whatever the job is. Quite why some people want to work 7 days a week is beyond me though. As said before, he might be doing this as a job, in preparation for when he leaves the police.

You last line I agree entirely, if electricians are employed by builders, without the appropriate qualifications & expertise, and in domestic work requiring Part P notification, then action should be taken against those employing such, when they know the requirements under the Building Regs. To use a criminal analogy, the maximum sentence for handling stolen goods, is twice that for (general) theft, to deter the primary offence in the first place. After all, failing to comply with Building Regs is a criminal offence.
 
I think we're probably at crossed purposes here. If you had been asked to act as a third party certify, presumably you would have looked at the design and first fix and advised accordingly . As you say, the builder is trying to pull a fast one. The Regs are there for a reason and in my view the more good professional qualified sparks adhere the better the trade will be for it in the long run. My comment re the wedge was purely that you would be charging appropriately for any time that you have to spend inspecting an testing or advising etc. What was going on re the six previous visits?
Its not the same job!!!!! I meant previous visits with different builders. There are quite a few of them trying to cut corners to save dosh.
 

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