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I haven't looked into this at all. Welive in a three bed semi, roof space facing east, south and west.
really sun light most of the day. Installation wise, what would be involved to get solar panels installed? I gathered so far that there is some sort of a dc / ac inverter involved, where would it be located? In the attic or under the staircase where the cu is? How would the power cables run from the pnaels to the inverter and to the CU? And, above all, is it woth doing? How much would the initial investment be? Any pitfalls?

It is early days but I am toying with the idea, however there is too much to read about it on the net. Some of you guys did some solar panel installations, maybe you can educate me a bit.:smartass2:
 
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We install inverter in loft , garages cupboards & next to fuse boxes etc etc .

it all boils down to the indivdual house ,

D.C cable runs short as possible

Roof work can be done in the day if you know what your doing

I am an installer so of course I going to say it worth it , i won twos systems myself And I have gone from a daily average of using 19 kwh per day to 7.8 kwh per day on average , I am producing 9 kwh per day on average so If I keep it up i will be getting FREE electricity all year round and getting paid for it aswell.

You need a SAP calculation doing for you house so you can see it all on paper then you decide if its worth it or not.
 
D

davetherave1979

Im also very keen on getting solar pv not for FIT but for free elec in the day and help save on the bill, waiting to see if it is cheeper for me to buy it on the new green deal or i might buy a 2.5kw system and fit it up for free. have had a look at the cost and for materials only and its not bad price. Would this be good todo or would I be better keeping the money in the bank for the bills
 
M

moggy1968

going off grid isn't worth it, the thing that makes solar worthwhile is FiT. In order to connect your system into your house and keep your house grid connected you have to use an installer, it's not a DIY job. YOur energy suplplier won't allow you to connect otherwise, for good reason, your not putting up a couple of lights here!
 
S

Somecamel

Lots of great installers on here, let us know where abouts in the country you are and some of the local companies can quote you
 
S

sedgy34

Well guys it is worth it I said in an earlier post I've halved my elec bills and savings are good even better now it's gone up 9% that's even more and the fit payments are awesome about £1600 a year as I got in before march! if you go green deal you don't get a fit payment and they want 7% interest too so you can get solar on finance From us at 10% interest and get the fit payments too it's a no brainer guys and you don't touch any money off your own in the bank.
 
S

SRE

Sorry Sedgy but you'd have to be off your rocker to take out finance at 10% if you've got money in the bank to pay for pv. Why would you pay 10% interest when all you'd lose if you used your own money would be 3% if you're lucky and you've got a decent rate of interest for tying up your cash for a while.

Yes solar pv is a no brainer if you have the cash in the bank and sometimes it's even a good idea if you can tack it on to your mortgage if you haven't long to run on it but as I'm not a financial adviser I wouldn't be giving you advice about how to fund it.

We have a 4kwp stsrem installed and we're using about 1/3 of what we generate and I work from home and try hard to use everything we generate.
 
S

Somecamel

Either way it makes financial sense.

If you have the 'spare' funds earning nothing 10% is great, if you have funds but not a lot, might be worth looking at the financing model.

I would not expect my customers to spend their last £7k on solar and leave themselves with nothing for that rainy day etc.
 
S

sedgy34

People have money in the bank and have cars on finance it's the same thing but solar gives you fit payments too
 
F

FB.

I haven't looked into this at all. Welive in a three bed semi, roof space facing east, south and west.
really sun light most of the day. Installation wise, what would be involved to get solar panels installed? I gathered so far that there is some sort of a dc / ac inverter involved, where would it be located? In the attic or under the staircase where the cu is? How would the power cables run from the pnaels to the inverter and to the CU? And, above all, is it woth doing? How much would the initial investment be? Any pitfalls?

It is early days but I am toying with the idea, however there is too much to read about it on the net. Some of you guys did some solar panel installations, maybe you can educate me a bit.:smartass2:
I'm not a solar PV installer, so I can give an unbiased view.

I would suggest getting the house surveyed for suitability for solar. It can still be a good investment and bill saver for many people, but the roof aspect and the size of the system which can be fitted - plus any shading issues and whether you can meet EPC grade D will all have a part to play in determining whether it's worthwhile.

As for borrowing money to buy PV, it only makes sense in certain situations and for many people the interest on borrowings will outstrip any gains from the FiT or bill savings. Put simply: if the rate of interest exceeds the annual rate of return on investment, then it is unlikely to make the buyers any money.
Some would argue that inflation will push up FiT payments, which is true, but rising inflation is often stamped-out by the Bank of England raising interest rates, which hurts borrowers.

Additionally, the rate of return projected by certain solar installers doesn't take into account the near-certainty that the system will need repairs as it ages in order to keep it performing satisfactorily. The running costs are unlikely to be zero once the system is over ten years old; the need for a new inverter at least once during the system lifespan is very likely, and that expense would wipe out an entire year's gains - assuming you have the several-hundred-pounds cash handy to pay for the repair to get the system back up and running and avoid downtime and loss of earnings and savings.
 
M

moggy1968

disagree with FB

while the returns on the system won't cover the cost of, say, a 3 year loan once that is paid off it's money in your pocket. taling out a loan to pay for the system only adds about a 1-2 years to the payback time.

Use cash if you can but otherwise a loan or extending your mortgage makes more sense than doing nothing as long as you can afford the loan repayments in the first place.
 
F

FB.

disagree with FB

while the returns on the system won't cover the cost of, say, a 3 year loan once that is paid off it's money in your pocket. taling out a loan to pay for the system only adds about a 1-2 years to the payback time.

Use cash if you can but otherwise a loan or extending your mortgage makes more sense than doing nothing as long as you can afford the loan repayments in the first place.
I agree that the duration of the loan does make a difference. Short-term 10% loans (i.e. a few years) to facilitate installation costs may be acceptable, but longer-term loans (i.e. several years or more) are just a cash drain.
Mortgage-type rates of 4% are worth considering.

However, debt to fund the purchase of anything is an additional layer of risk as you're using someone else's money in the hope of making a profit for yourself. In the event that your "investment" fails to perform for whatever reason, the money and interest still have to be paid on the liability.

So for buying solar with borrowed money, you'd also want to have a high level of confidence that the installer is going to do a good job, and will still be around for the warranty period (5-10years) so that the customer doesn't incur additional costs later.
What would be worse than a debt-funded, badly-installed/underperforming solar array which subsequently developed a fault but the installer was not around to honour any warranty, and which is earning very little for the customer, yet they still have to pay the loan and interest?
 
M

moggy1968

So for buying solar with borrowed money, you'd also want to have a high level of confidence that the installer is going to do a good job, and will still be around for the warranty period (5-10years) so that the customer doesn't incur additional costs later.
What would be worse than a debt-funded, badly-installed/underperforming solar array which subsequently developed a fault but the installer was not around to honour any warranty, and which is earning very little for the customer, yet they still have to pay the loan and interest?
use us then:wink_smile:

also, if you use a quality manufacturer like SMA for your inverter they will refurbish them for significantly less than the new price (a third I believe).
There is little else to go wrong in a decent system.
This shows the benefit of paying a little more for a quality system and the folly of going for a cheapo.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
B

Berneray

Sedgy is right....people have been borrowing their own money for hundreds of years. Most cars are bought on finance despite what people have in the bank....I spent 20 years in the Royal Bank lending people their own money.....

Typical car loan situation. You might have say £8k in the bank. You need to change your car and see one you like for say £10K. Monthly payments over 4 years £180. So because you are comfortable with £180 a month you take the finance leaving you with the comfort of knowing you still have a safety net in the bank...

That car you bought for £10k is then worth £9k as you drive it away and with front ended interest you suddenly have a loan of £14K for an asset valued at £9K....Does it make sense ...no...but thousand of people do this every day in car showrooms across the country..]

Contrast that with borrowing for pv solar....Say a 4kpw system for £7k. EST will do £4k interest free loans payable over 8 years...monthly cost £41. Use that to finance £4k of the cost and use then need only £3k of your own money. FIT will average out at approx £52 per month. So that alone covers the cost of borrowing....

And then you have your free electricity....

Still a no brainer.....
 
Dave you might not get it on the green deal , it will have to be mostly funded by yourself or if your in fuel poverty ECO might fund it but not sure the golden rule will never be met for solar panels yet.
Im also very keen on getting solar pv not for FIT but for free elec in the day and help save on the bill, waiting to see if it is cheeper for me to buy it on the new green deal or i might buy a 2.5kw system and fit it up for free. have had a look at the cost and for materials only and its not bad price. Would this be good todo or would I be better keeping the money in the bank for the bills
 
We have worked on a loan model ,

if you have a 4kwp south facing

you can get a loan for the system
pay it back over a 5 year term

the fits / export & fuel bill saving pay most of the loan in the first 5 years ,
then once your loan is paid and you get the money back you chiped in to pay it off in 5 years.

you have aroud 10k over the next 20 years to look forward to

year 5-20 fits export and fuel bill saving
year 20 -25 fits stops so export and fuel bill savings

I dont see why our calculations should stop at 20 years when we have been using 25 for the last 3 years as thats like saying the system wont work after 20 years as it clearly will,

so we include year 20-25 in export (4.5p) and fuel bill saving (13p)
 
D

davetherave1979

thanks for this info all i realy care about is genarating free electricity, not worried about the fit that much. im a sparks by trade and could fit the system i think, with out 2 much problem. I have got a price for a 2.5kw system at a great price so I could just connected it up to my supply with out telling the supply company and be able to use free elec in the day time am i right.
 

whinmoor

-
Arms
I think you need to do a bit of paperwork to avoid a potential knock on your door. Imagine if everyone went ahead and pumped juice into the grid at will....

Better still, get someone who knows what they are doing to do it for you so they carry the can.
 
L

leexgx

don't see much point in Paying to have an PV system if your not interested in getting the FIT payments (you get the money even if you use all the currently been Generated power by the PV system)

you may had just get an Free PV system installed on your roof as an number of company's do it for free (if roof is suitable as think most will only fit on perfect roofs now due to Free PV installers getting 50% rate i think if they have installed more then 25 pv installs)
 
F

finchy

if you model the returns and assume RPI at 2.5% and energy inflation at 4% (conservative estimates). As MEP says just take the savings and export from 21yr-25yr. I dont show this to our customers as there are too many variables but the broad estimates show its fantastic ! The returns over 25 years will be :

Total Return £ 26,995.75
Total Investment£ 6822.38
Real Profit £ 20,173.38
Real Return on Investment396%
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
Lots of great installers on here, let us know where abouts in the country you are and some of the local companies can quote you
I live in Gosport, Hampshire. But like I said this is early staege yet, so I just want a rough idea how much it would cost and how much work is involved. So,yes, if any of you solar guys could geive me a rough idea, please do so.
 
F

FB.

if you model the returns and assume RPI at 2.5% and energy inflation at 4% (conservative estimates). As MEP says just take the savings and export from 21yr-25yr. I dont show this to our customers as there are too many variables but the broad estimates show its fantastic ! The returns over 25 years will be :

Total Return
£ 26,995.75
Total Investment
£ 6822.38
Real Profit
£ 20,173.38
Real Return on Investment
396%
Which amounts to 4.4% per year.
 
J

jerriais

Hi Stef,

We're based in Winchester but have installed in Gosport and around that area. Please feel free to get in touch if you have questions regarding pricing etc.

Matt
 

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