Is pvc pvc T&E soon to be written off ?

[Dartlec]

I know a sparks with serious ocd who won’t wire new colours to old colours , he buys old colours off eBay anytime he has to alter / add on to old red black wiring...

I guess it avoids that god awful "two colours" sticker that should die a death....

 

[Risteard]

I made a very rare trip to my local wholesalers today (I usually buy stuff online now and have it delivered) and was speaking to the manager who I have known since college.
He reckons in the coming amendment to the regs , grey pvc pvc twin and earth cable will be written off and we will be required to use LSF / LSOH cable domestically...

anyone else heard this ?

This happened in the 5th Edition National Rules for Electrical Installations in the south of Ireland. All cables now need to meet the new standard, which basically translates to LSF insulation being required as well as sheath. The cost of cable has skyrocketed as a result.

To be more accurate, the minimum requirement is that they are to Dca, s2, d2, a2.

100m of IS201B/2.5 2.5mm^2 T&E recently cost me €84.14 ex VAT.

 

[pc1966]

I guess it avoids that god awful "two colours" sticker that should die a death....

That is probably the single most useless label of them all. If you don't know the cable colours, and cant be bothered to even look them up, then you have no ef'n business working on electrical installations.

 

[Vortigern]

Personally I often specify low smoke cable. As to colours couldn't agree more @pc1966, often working on three phase with the old phase colours being used so you get red, yellow and blue with black with the new colours where extending said circuit. In theory I should sleeve all those different colours brown or blue so that the next electrician (presumbaly?) knows how to connect the wires (really!) correctly. I do not do it. If they don't know what's what they should not be working on the installation.

 

[Marvo]

Maybe pyro will come back into fashion...

 

[UNG]

Don't think I've ever seen PVC wiring that has failed other than damage or a loose connection at a terminal - even the 60s stranded stuff.

I was installing stranded 2.5mm T&E in the early 1980's, I believe the only company manufacturing it at the time was AEI. Pilkingtons Glass specified it for parts of a big new factory project they were building at the time, I went to AEI in Leigh and collected 4000m every fortnight or a couple of months

good , can’t stand mini sticky trunking anyways,
nothing smacks more of a diy job than cables run in sticky back trunking

So what do you use for the non diy look then
There is nothing wrong with properly installed minitrunking the problem is a lot of so called electricians can't

Maybe pyro will come back into fashion...

I wish

 

[DefyG]

South of England generally sees the use of white T&E

I was (perhaps incorrectly) informed back around 2005 (coinciding with harmonisation of cable colours) that only LSF came with 'White' sheath, the 'normal' T&E was in now Grey sheathed!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Maybe pyro will come back into fashion...

NO CHANCE , 5 day domesticated installers wouldn't have a clue how to wire new lights in Pyro

 

[Dustydazzler]

I was installing stranded 2.5mm T&E in the early 1980's, I believe the only company manufacturing it at the time was AEI. Pilkingtons Glass specified it for parts of a big new factory project they were building at the time, I went to AEI in Leigh and collected 4000m every fortnight or a couple of months

So what do you use for the non diy look then
There is nothing wrong with properly installed minitrunking the problem is a lot of so called electricians can't

I wish

Galv Conduit

 

[Rockingit]

Don't think I've ever seen PVC wiring that has failed other than damage or a loose connection at a terminal - even the 60s stranded stuff.

I have, and most bizarrely! I'll have to dig through the archives to find a pic but 2-3 years ago a mate had a new problem in their (old) house that they'd been in for years and after some testing I'd narrowed it down to one cable that I could see both ends of, about 5m long and in visually perfect condition, not disturbed since installation many years earlier. After some headscratching and guestimation I peeled open a section of sheath to discover that there was a manufacturing break in the conductor, clearly a good couple of mm. There must have been enough of a bend or whatever at that point to have made the ends make contact and 'work' for the twenty odd years it had, but there was no signs of arcing etc. Most bizarre.

 

[Timbo]

Maybe pyro will come back into fashion...

I love Pyro. ?

 

[nicebutdim]

I was (perhaps incorrectly) informed back around 2005 (coinciding with harmonisation of cable colours) that only LSF came with 'White' sheath, the 'normal' T&E was in now Grey sheathed!

I'd always understood (albeit from a layman's position) that PVC T&E was grey and LSF was white, but over time have read several discussions about white T&E having long been used in some areas of Southern England.

It's possible that this has always been LSF, but those discussions led me to believe otherwise. From what I could ascertain, white T&E was used as this was what some wholesalers stocked.

This use of white cable is sort of a grey area for me.

 

[pc1966]

There was a case recently on this forum with some low IR T&E in otherwise good looking condition, probably a crap make/batch though.

Also I recently IR tested a hired cabin after it tripped the RCD, trip was down to water getting in to an outdoor connector, but in doing so I found each circuit's L or N was showing 0.5M (or a little less) to E, and they could only be 5m or so of cable tops!

 

[nicebutdim]

There was a case recently on this forum with some low IR T&E in otherwise good looking condition, probably a crap make/batch though.

IIRC the cable with low IR discussed on this forum was grey. There have been a couple of Youtube videos about such cable, with Efixx recently focusing on the subject of 'fake' cable, but all the T&E involved was also grey

 

[nicebutdim]

These guys don't half churn out content - this is from late last year, but had to scroll back about 50 videos to find them!

 

[UNG]

I have, and most bizarrely! I'll have to dig through the archives to find a pic but 2-3 years ago a mate had a new problem in their (old) house that they'd been in for years and after some testing I'd narrowed it down to one cable that I could see both ends of, about 5m long and in visually perfect condition, not disturbed since installation many years earlier. After some headscratching and guestimation I peeled open a section of sheath to discover that there was a manufacturing break in the conductor, clearly a good couple of mm. There must have been enough of a bend or whatever at that point to have made the ends make contact and 'work' for the twenty odd years it had, but there was no signs of arcing etc. Most bizarre.

Didn't have an AFDD installed??
Is that evidence we do need them

 

[Rockingit]

Didn't have an AFDD installed??
Is that evidence we do need them

Now then.... go outside, say twenty Hail Mary's and never set foot in this hallowed place again.....

 

[robd]

The fact that a manager at a wholesaler should even think he knows about things that might happen in the regs before a time served electrician is depressing in its self and all that's wrong with the trade in my opinion

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I'd always understood (albeit from a layman's position) that PVC T&E was grey and LSF was white, but over time have read several discussions about white T&E having long been used in some areas of Southern England.
It's possible that this has always been LSF, but those discussions led me to believe otherwise. From what I could ascertain, white T&E was used as this was what some wholesalers stocked.

This is correct. Before LSF T+E was available, one could get both white and grey PVC and some wholesalers had both, I think grey was marginally cheaper but white was usually more suitable where visible.

 

[Dartlec]

This is correct. Before LSF T+E was available, one could get both white and grey PVC and some wholesalers had both, I think grey was marginally cheaper but white was usually more suitable where visible.

Are we talking 80s here? I assumed white was the norm switched to at some time in the 70s, right up until the colour change. Had no idea it was a regional issue - but literally every house I see with 80s on wiring is in white here (Kent/London) (including my own) - and pretty sure it's not all LSF....